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Interesting
1 posted on 10/21/2006 12:52:08 PM PDT by Mr170IQ
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To: Mr170IQ

No. Not interesting...frightening.

These people are evil.


2 posted on 10/21/2006 1:02:10 PM PDT by the final gentleman
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To: Mr170IQ

Absolutely stunning article. I have bookmarked it. orson Scott Card has justified his entire career with just this one work - I need to read more of his sci-fi.


3 posted on 10/21/2006 1:14:27 PM PDT by Mongeaux (''I would sooner be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone directory," W.F. Buckley)
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To: Mr170IQ

I am always interesting in what Orson Scott Card has to say- he reminds me of many Democrats from days of yore, fondly remembered and sadly missed, with whom I could generally agree with on a lot of things. Unlike the current band of screeching thugs on TV who have talking points and spin, and won't answer direct questions, Card seems to work in the same Universe I inhabit, and use the same sets of facts. With such a person, you can disagree on some points and conclusions, but still be civil. I surely wish there were more like him


7 posted on 10/21/2006 1:44:06 PM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: Mr170IQ
This brings to mind a recent guest on O'Reilly. A professor from the U. of Wisconsin. He firmly believes that the U.S. gov. engineered the 9/11 attacks and the WTC towers were brought down by "...controlled demolitions. We proved it!" The stunner (and the reason this article reminds me of that interview) was when he stated that he was a "professor of logic and analysis."

Maybe we will need illiterate foreigners to do the tough jobs in America like making beds and hustling fast-food.

8 posted on 10/21/2006 1:46:50 PM PDT by TigersEye (I don't care what's in your genes...just keep it there.)
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To: Mr170IQ

Smolin continues his postmodern attack on science.


9 posted on 10/21/2006 1:50:44 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Mr170IQ
Ha ha ha! I wrote entire papers in the "theoretic" method, and always got an "A" on them. They were so circular that I could barely understand them myself after I was finished.

APf
10 posted on 10/21/2006 1:54:42 PM PDT by APFel (Don't eat the Daisies, they are bad for the heart.)
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To: Mr170IQ

" It's a shameful thing when one ideology becomes so dominant that it effectively shuts the door to any other approach."

The dynamics of groupthink apply to global warming.


11 posted on 10/21/2006 1:57:11 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Mr170IQ
I'm in the middle of it. Card is wrong to say the book is "brilliant." Another book of Smolin's, Three Roads to Quantum Gravity, is much better written. There he is concise, in this book he say the same things over and over again. Card is also wrong to say that Smolin "bends over backward to be fair;" Smolin is simply being objective about the successes and failures of String Theory.

Card is unfair to link String Theory to the ridiculous social "theories" of the leftist intellectuals. Physicists doing String Theory don't deny objective reality. They strive to make String Theory meaningful, e.g. wanting the parameters of the Standard Model fall out as a unique solution. Smolin's real point is that it just hasn't worked out and so we must pursue other approaches too.

It's also interesting that Card omits a point that Smolin makes early in the book; I'd call it Smolin's basic observation. In the past several centuries, every quarter century or so has seen a breakthrough in fundamental physics except the last quarter. One can't help but feel that something's wrong in the state of Denmark. Smolin lays the blame squarely on the dominance of String Theory in the theoretical physics community.

As I say, I'm in the middle. It's not a bad book so far but I hope Smolin doesn't tell me again that "not only don't they know the equations of the basic theory, they don't even have an approach to figure them out" and "no new predictions have been made" and several other critiques. I get it already.

13 posted on 10/21/2006 2:02:40 PM PDT by edsheppa
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To: Mr170IQ

Thanks for the great post. I'm going to insist my 16-year old chemist/engineer/rocket scientist wannabe to read this. This is a kid who loved "Titus Groan" and reads obscure stuff. He'll get it.

My uncle -- an unashamed liberal who teaches at a major technological university in MI (:koffLawrencekoff:) -- has been forced into this himself and is disgusted by it. I don't talk to him often, but his daughter (also a liberal) is in college and is completely disgusted with this nonsense. If even libs can see the light on this there's still hope.

Doing away with tenure would be a good start.


14 posted on 10/21/2006 2:02:58 PM PDT by Kieri (A Grafted Branch (Rom. 11))
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To: Mr170IQ

Great article. I've never taken a class in Gender and Sexuality Studies or any other such major, so I cannot speak about those departments..

My focus has been in Economics, Government, and Law. These are departments where you might expect to find groupthink; though I've actually been surprised how unique most of my professors have been.

As for "Theoretics," he definitely has a point that academics sometimes contrive ways to write 1000 words and say nothing of substance. However, I think there's some danger in confusing complexity with inanity. That Race class he quotes truly sounds ridiculous and vapid; but he acknowledges that the language of (even legitimate) Physics speaks to Physicists and not the average person.. Similarly Economics has a language of its own. That shouldn't necessarily be taken as a sign it has something to hide.


15 posted on 10/21/2006 2:13:21 PM PDT by ivyleaguebrat
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To: Mr170IQ
In physics, it has only taken twenty years... It will take longer for Theoretics to die....
IMHO, this is b/c one of the most difficult things in the world -- if not the most difficult is for a person to admit that something they believed in with all his heart and soul is wrong -- unmistakeably, undeniably, unashamedly W-R-O-N-G.

It doesn't matter if the thing in question deals with science or religion; world events or history; the actions of your children or spouse; or how many teaspoons of vanilla go into rice pudding. If a person has staked his ego on his opinion/belief, that ego becomes a sheet anchor. And most of us are simply not strong enough to haul it up by admitting "Whadda you know? Looks like all these years I was wrong."

============================

And regarding intellectual 'group think' here is Richard Pipe's in his book The Russian Revolution chpt.4, 'The Intelligentsia', page 134:

"...intellectuals turn into a social group for their own interests, the most important of which calls of an increase in the number and increase of white-collar jobs -- an objective best promoted by centralization and bureaucratization....

"Paradoxically, therefore, capitalism and democracy,while enhancing the role of the intellectual, also increases their discontent. Their status in a capitalist society is far beneath that of politicians and businessmen, whom they scorn as managers in the in the art of social management. They envy their wealth, authority, and prestige....it was easier for the intellectuals to accommodate the pre-modern world, in which status was fixed by tradition and the law, than to the fluctuating world of capitalism and democracy, in which they feel humiliated by lack of money and status: Ledwig von Mises thought that intellectuals gravitate to anti-capitalism philosophy 'in order to render inaudible the inner voice that tells them that their failure is entirely their own fault.' "


16 posted on 10/21/2006 2:18:14 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: Mr170IQ

Strung along by String Theory. The difference between Science and Fiction is the real world, and Theoretics coming from the English Departments seems more concerned with originality and creativity in language -- i.e. the creation of meaning from texts -- than ascertaining facts about the real world. Like multiculturalism, Theoretics produces a world unto itself, with its own sets of assumptions, language and followers -- not a science to be rigorously tested and agreed to by the community.


17 posted on 10/21/2006 2:22:30 PM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: Mr170IQ
Latest advice from the New Scientist: "Don't say cloning, say somatic cell nuclear transfer."
19 posted on 10/21/2006 2:26:08 PM PDT by cornelis (Hat tip: NRO)
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To: Mr170IQ

This article is way to verbose. It needs boiling down to something like, "if it has social in its name, it ain't science."


21 posted on 10/21/2006 2:46:30 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com)
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To: Mr170IQ
How did this happen to physicists? . . . You couldn't get tenure if you weren't a String Theorist. You couldn't get grant money. You couldn't get published. You couldn't get a doctorate -- except at the fringes of the field.

Follow the money. "Publish or perish" has been replaced by "Get funded or get out."

22 posted on 10/21/2006 2:57:56 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: Mr170IQ
I am being sarcastic, of course -- but I am not being inaccurate.

I hate it when that happens...

26 posted on 10/21/2006 4:21:26 PM PDT by Stultis
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