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Ice store at Moon's South Pole is a myth: study
AFP ^
| 10/19/06
Posted on 10/19/2006 6:41:12 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: Old Student
Drop enough small asteroids on Mars, (and I'm talking a LOT of them!) and increase the mass while building up the gas pressure and temp... Of course if you increase the mass of the Moon, you will change the orbital characteristics (and climate, seasons, tides, etc.) of Earth. That's not a trade I want to make.
41
posted on
10/19/2006 12:00:42 PM PDT
by
seowulf
To: seowulf
Not only did I not suggest doing this to the moon, the post you quoted me on says specifically "Mars" so I'm not sure where you're going. We were talking about getting Mars to hold on to an atmosphere. The Moon is better off without one, for my purposes. Not to mention that it's lower gravity is a positive, as well. Enough gravity to keep stuff where you put it, not enough to keep from getting to someplace else relatively easily.
42
posted on
10/19/2006 2:39:58 PM PDT
by
Old Student
(We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
To: RightWhale; Brett66; xrp; gdc314; anymouse; NonZeroSum; jimkress; discostu; The_Victor; ...
43
posted on
10/19/2006 6:33:29 PM PDT
by
KevinDavis
(Nancy you ignorant Slut!!!!!)
To: Junior
why don't we just build a really big siphon hose and....HEHE.
44
posted on
10/19/2006 6:43:24 PM PDT
by
phoenix0468
(http://www.mylocalforum.com -- Go Speak Your Mind.)
To: presidio9
To: Old Student
46
posted on
10/19/2006 7:27:06 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(Dhimmicrati delenda est! https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
To: presidio9
Water? Its between the moonbase and the larger than safe nuclear waste dump...
47
posted on
10/19/2006 7:37:02 PM PDT
by
Dominick
("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
To: Paradox
Wouldn't the ice burn up before it gets into space? And if it is going to be shielded by the rocket, that would seem to make it very expensive.
48
posted on
10/19/2006 7:49:19 PM PDT
by
Jedi Master Pikachu
( The BBC HYS is cruddy: many typed comments and not one posted (non-offensive).)
To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Shoot.
And I just answered a 'help wanted' email -- they wanted somebody to process payments to the ice store.
Hey, there aren't even any eskimos to buy it down there, are there?
49
posted on
10/19/2006 7:52:25 PM PDT
by
unspun
(What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
To: american_ranger
Solar energy could be used for hydrolysis; When hydrogen burns, it is recombined with oxygen to make water; some extra oxygen could be used for breathing (and extra hydrogen could be used in other applications or dumped). It is not such an absurd statement.
50
posted on
10/19/2006 7:52:26 PM PDT
by
Jedi Master Pikachu
( The BBC HYS is cruddy: many typed comments and not one posted (non-offensive).)
To: Old Student
...the post you quoted me on says specifically "Mars" so I'm not sure where you're going. Now I'm not so sure either. I must have had "Moon" on the mind. I guess that makes me a lunatic.
51
posted on
10/19/2006 8:10:48 PM PDT
by
seowulf
To: presidio9
Two percent by mass is really quite good. I was part of a study that looked at 0.1, 1, and 10% by mass, and 1% is a pretty rich strike. The problem is all the mass you have to emplace on the moon to utilize the water. You need "lunar" earthmoving equipment suited to high vacuum and dusty regolith, spares, mechanics, a big power source (a reactor would be best), lots of food, medicine, a complete infirmary, etc, etc,...if you intend for people to be part of the process. Trying to do it robotically has its own problems but sending a human crew adds cost and mass.
What's the water for? Well, for life support, or for electrolyzing into propellants--you need LOTS of power for that--and then you have to lift the propellants back into orbit. Any payoff comes from the more modest gravity well of the Moon.
The payoff--if there is one--is S-L-O-W.
--Boris
52
posted on
10/19/2006 8:44:55 PM PDT
by
boris
(The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a leftist with a word processor.)
To: seowulf
"I guess that makes me a lunatic."
It's ok. Don't feel like the lone stranger, there, either. I've always been a lunatic, myself...
53
posted on
10/20/2006 5:37:38 AM PDT
by
Old Student
(We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
To: american_ranger
We need energy to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen in water, Then we need oxygen to let hydrogen burn. But we breathed some of the oxygen so it is not available to burn." First, the sun is readily available as the base source of consumable energy. Fairly unlimited supply.
Second, whether we breathe it or burn it, the oxygen and hydrogen are not lost, they are transferred to a new compound, CO2 and H2O. The basic law of conservation of matter. Transforming them back into oxygen and hydrogen is again a question of the application of energy.
The supply of base elements is the major factor in living on the moon, not the supply of energy. Energy provides the means to manipulate the elements as needed.
54
posted on
10/20/2006 6:00:12 AM PDT
by
CMAC51
To: SunkenCiv
We don't have to match Earth's mass. Just enough to hold an atmosphere. Venus is 1.1e24 kg smaller than earth, and it holds an atmosphere just fine! I don't have the math to figure out how much mass we'd need, but I'm sure someone out there does. About 3e16 kg of it is hanging there in orbit right around Mars, for that matter. Several of the larger moons of Jupiter are within about 1 order of magnitude of the mass needed to match Earths, for that matter. We can do it. Not easily or quickly, but we can.
55
posted on
10/20/2006 6:15:36 AM PDT
by
Old Student
(We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
To: american_ranger
It might be of interest to note that the moon appears to be 30% oxygen by weight. The missing element is hydrogen of which there are traces only.
56
posted on
10/20/2006 9:06:45 AM PDT
by
RightWhale
(Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
To: Old Student
If we added Mercury (which is denser than Mars but smaller obviously) to Mars, the little virtual calculator gizmo I've got here puts the combined mass at 9.7219E23, which is 16 per cent of the Earth's. Venus' mass is 81 per cent that of Earth. There really isn't any way to find enough material to make Mars like the Earth.
If there were lots of water available to bring Mars' mass to that of the Earth (and there could be), Mars could be converted to a planet with a planetary ocean, Earthlike atmosphere (synthesized from frozen gases imported from the outer Solar System, which is where the water could be lurking), and floating cities for humans. The final diameter of water-covered Mars would be larger than that of Earth, because of lower density.
Current Mars is just under 11 per cent the mass of Earth. Moving nearly 90 per cent of the Earth's mass is well in the future. IOW, the only practical prospect for the foreseeable is to build habitrail-style habitats on Earth (could be just inflatable structures) and deploy them on Mars, inflating them with the Earthlike atmospheric mixture, and staying indoors. :')
57
posted on
10/20/2006 9:31:31 AM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(Dhimmicrati delenda est! https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
To: presidio9
Ice store at Moon's South Pole is a myth: studyYou mean there's no ozone hole on the moon?
58
posted on
10/20/2006 9:34:17 AM PDT
by
N. Theknow
((Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.))
To: N. Theknow
The moon is an entire ozone hole. Pole to pole.
59
posted on
10/20/2006 9:35:35 AM PDT
by
RightWhale
(Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
To: SunkenCiv
![](http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/images/totalrecall09.jpg)
and staying indoors.
60
posted on
10/20/2006 9:44:31 AM PDT
by
presidio9
(Islam is as Islam does.)
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