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I'm not a science type, but this article was an eye opener to me. I guess I always thought that the Nazi regime and his ideas of race supremacy were Hitler's idea alone.

Go ahead and discuss this -- I just am not that well versed in this.

Is there a scientific or ethics ping list? Also the author touches on abortion. I'll ping those list keepers.

1 posted on 10/07/2006 8:02:43 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: Mr. Silverback; Coleus; cpforlife.org

You may want to weigh in here and/or ping your lists.


2 posted on 10/07/2006 8:03:59 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Planned Parenthood is a direct descendant of the eugenics movement!


4 posted on 10/07/2006 8:06:15 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Salvation; BlackElk; Clintonfatigued; AuH2ORepublican; JohnnyZ; Kuksool
"Endorsed by the intellectual elite and our most prominent citizens, the eugenics movement was responsible for racial, class and ethnic intolerance as well as civil rights violations that would be totally unconscionable in today’s politically correct American culture."


5 posted on 10/07/2006 8:10:38 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Cheney X -- Destroying the Liberal Democrat Traitors By Any Means Necessary -- Ya Dig ? Sho 'Nuff.)
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To: Salvation
This may get me in alot of trouble, but I feel that there is nothing wrong with Eugenics.

The problem is when certain people take it and twist what should be an objective science into an excuse to prove their own "racial" supremacy. This was done, btw, by folks as diverse as Woodrow Wilson and Marcus Garvey, to say nothing of Adolf.

6 posted on 10/07/2006 8:11:09 PM PDT by Clemenza (Lets Go Mets!!!)
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To: Salvation
Margaret Sanger was a prominent American proponent of eugenics, though she tried to avoid racial overtones.

Her stated goal was to eliminate hereditary diseases that seemed to be tied to race, like sickle-cell anemia in Blacks or Tay-Sachs in Jews, as well as reduce the number of diabetics and retarded people (no, there is no connection).

She lost it after WW II when she proposed camps for stupid people, where they'd need to get sterilized to leave.

She's the founder of Planned Parenthood, which is one reason her name and eugenics does not come up too often in the MSM.

There is lots and lots of information about the eugenics movement out there- the Fabians in the UK were tied up in it, one of the outcomes of that was "Brave New World".

Like the article suggests, I don't think the movement is entirely dead yet. One recent incarnation was called Social Ecology, iirc.

Hitler's ideas were far from original and mostly derivative from the ideas floating around Europe and America. Since his defeat, eugenics has been understandably unpopular as a political stance since he took it to a very unpleasant extreme.
8 posted on 10/07/2006 8:15:24 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: Salvation
The new lure will be Transgenics. Using human and animal DNA to help treat conditions and create 'enhanced' humans.

Thus creating 'non humans', for if your made up of nonhuman material are you still human?
10 posted on 10/07/2006 8:19:24 PM PDT by MrNationalist (Isaiah 6:8)
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To: Salvation

Here is Sanger's A Plan For Peace

Sanger founded the American Birth Control League, which is now called Planned Parenthood

...........................................

A Plan for Peace
by MARGARET SANGER

First, put into action President Wilson's fourteen points, upon which terms Germany and Austria surrendered to the Allies in 1918.

Second, have Congress set up a special department for the study of population problems and appoint a Parliament of Population, the directors representing the various branches of science: this body to direct and control the population through birth rates and immigration, and to direct its distribution over the country according to national needs consistent with taste, fitness and interest of individuals. The main objects of the Population Congress would be:

a. to raise the level and increase the general intelligence of population.

b. to increase the population slowly by keeping the birth rate at its present level of fifteen per thousand, decreasing the death rate below its present mark of 11 per thousand.

c. to keep the doors of immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as feebleminded, idiots, morons, insane, syphilitic, epileptic, criminal, professional prostitutes, and others in this class barred by the immigration laws of 1924.

d. to apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.

e. to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feebleminded parents, by pensioning all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.

f. to give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization.

g. to apportion farm lands and homesteads for these segregated persons where they would be taught to work under competent instructors for the period of their entire lives.

The first step would thus be to control the intake and output of morons, mental defectives, epileptics.

The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection, and segregate them on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct.

Having corralled this enormous part of our population and placed it on a basis of health instead of punishment, it is safe to say that fifteen or twenty millions of our population would then be organized into soldiers of defense---defending the unborn against their own disabilities.

The third step would be to give special attention to the mothers' health, to see that women who are suffering from tuberculosis, heart or kidney disease, toxic goitre, gonorrhea, or any disease where the condition of pregnancy disturbs their health are placed under public health nurses to instruct them in practical, scientific methods of contraception in order to safeguard their lives---thus reducing maternal mortality.

The above steps may seem to place emphasis on a health program instead of on tariffs, moratoriums and debts, but I believe that national health is the first essential factor in any program for universal peace.

With the future citizen safeguarded from hereditary taints, with five million mental and moral degenerates segregated, with ten million women and ten million children receiving adequate care, we could then turn our attention to the basic needs for international peace.

There would then be a definite effort to make population increase slowly and at a specified rate, in order to accommodate and adjust increasing numbers to the best social and economic system.

In the meantime we should organize and join an International League of Low Birth Rate Nations to secure and maintain World Peace.

Summary of address before the New History Society, January 17th, New York City


11 posted on 10/07/2006 8:24:35 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: Salvation
Here's a previous FR link. Unfortunately, the original link is no longer active....

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a7dd3740515.htm

13 posted on 10/07/2006 8:35:53 PM PDT by Rocko ("Ned Lamont doesn't know anything. You might as well vote for Michael Bolton." -- O'Reilly)
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To: Salvation

Plato admired Sparta's version of eugenics.


14 posted on 10/07/2006 8:39:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Salvation
Rent Judgment at Nuremburg when you have time. The best part of the movie is when Maximillan Schell (defense lawyer) quotes Virginia law and Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
16 posted on 10/07/2006 8:41:45 PM PDT by bws53
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To: Salvation

Eugenics is a combination of mercantilism and darwinism.

After we got a bit smarter, we figured out that the government can't pick winning businesses, and correspondingly, cant pick winning characteristics. Not that people in government aren't well meaning or smart, just that when you assemble well meaning and smart people in a bureaucracy/heirarchy, they are not allowed to express their genius, or their preferences, rather they are bound by rules written for one situation, and applied in another situation. That is why bureaucracies ALWAYS seem to act stupidly.

Having said that, individuals and capitalists can pick winning stocks and horses. We all practice Eugenics when we pick our spouse with a view to having children that have qualities that we find attractive in our spouse!

It is the thousands of different choices we all make that create a diverse background, and then the diverse background is selected (in a horse race).

The Eugenicist would substitute expert opinion for the horse race. If that was to happen in the horse breeding business, you would get beautiful horses, but not necessarily fast horses. In the horse breeding industry the modern Nazis are represented by the breeders of Arab horses which are beautiful, but are not in the first rank of speed. The royalists are, oddly enough represented by the breeders of Morgan horses, who demand that all real Morgan horses be desended from Justin Morgan's horse.

The capitalists are represented by the Standard Bred. You run, you demonstrate you meet the standard, and your horse is "standard bred".

In business, Mercantilists try to meet approval of "experts" include process oriented people try to get Deming Awards, or Baldridge Awards. Nice, but the real Capitalists seek the rewards of the market place. Toyota and Nissan spend millions of dollars in their effort to win the Deming Award. Honda: decided that the right answer was to win in the market. Honda does just fine in the market!

The ISO 9000 folks are analogous to the 'Standard bred', setting up minimum standards for quality, that nearly everyone can meet. All ISO 9000 companies, like all standard bred horses will be competitive.


22 posted on 10/07/2006 8:51:27 PM PDT by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy!" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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KHAN!!!!!!!!!


25 posted on 10/07/2006 9:53:54 PM PDT by isom35
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To: Salvation

bump


26 posted on 10/07/2006 10:56:43 PM PDT by kenth (There are three kinds of people in the world. Those who can count, and those who can't.)
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To: Salvation

My mother is 78, one of the stories she often relates to me is that of how many of her college professors in the late '30s and how many of the mainstream magazines were on board with this idea until the war.


27 posted on 10/07/2006 11:52:59 PM PDT by Billyv (It is our commonality (desire for liberty) NOT our diversity that makes America great.)
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To: Salvation

Read the book "Grand illusions: the history of Planned Parenthood" by George Grant for a good history of the eugenics movement and its links to racism.


28 posted on 10/08/2006 1:25:48 AM PDT by Ban Draoi Marbh Draoi ( Gen. 12:3: a warning to all anti-semites.)
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To: Salvation
I guess I always thought that the Nazi regime and his ideas of race supremacy were Hitler's idea alone.

Hitler just gave it a bad name. See if you can get a copy of Chesterton's Eugenics and Other Evils. My copy doesn't show a copyright date, but it was published in the U.S. in 1927.

From the preface ("To the Reader"):

. . . the actual bulk of preliminary notes about the science of Eugenics were written before the war [WW I]. It was a time when this theme was the topic of the hour; when eugenic babies (not visibly very distinguishable from other babies) sprawled all over the illustrated papers; when the evolutionary fancy of Nietzsche was the new cry among the intellectuals; and when Mr. Bernard Shaw and others were considering the idea that to breed a man like acart-horse was the true way to attain that higher civilization, of intellectual magnanimity and sympathetic insight, which may be found in cart-horses.

Chesterton says that his notes were about 9 years old when he wrote the book. He refers to "scientific officialism and organization . . . [at] war with Christendom" and calls the phenomenon Prussianism -- of a piece with "poison gas and piracy against neutrals."

I haven't read it in years -- maybe I will again shortly. Always interesting to see a contemporary account of a controversy.

29 posted on 10/08/2006 1:41:03 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Salvation; DBrow; maryz
Contemplate the religious fervor associated with the pro-abortion advocacy. The societal practice of abortion is ritual mass murder upon the altars of conceit dedicated to idolatrous vanities, a collective human sacrifice before pagan idols.

It has a similitude to the Teutonic paganism of Adolph Hitler (whose idolatry was the idea of a "master race," among other things). In effect, these genocides are a mass human sacrifice to those pagan idols. The abortionists, like the National Socialists, incinerate the remains of their victims.

Aleister Crowley, who openly supported the National Socialists, was affiliated with Ordo Templi Orientis, A.A. (Order of the Silver Star) and other such occult lodges all across Germany. Crowley engaged in all manner of deviancy, homoeroticism, sadomasochism and murder. Much of the occultism in National Socialism is derived directly from there.

Crowley envisioned himself as the Great Beast (To Mega Therion), just as der Fuhrer made himself in that image. Hitler's life as a struggling, inept artist was where that association blossomed.

Crowley's creed, "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the Law," (which is actually from Francois Rabelais) and used by Neo-Pagan nutcases without attribution for obvious politically correct reasons, is with certainty no different than the National Socialist "will to power," or their ubermensch mentality.

It is also no accident Nietzsche's "over-man" and nihilist philosophy and resulting insanity from venereal disease closely mirrors the insanity of der Fuhrer.

These occult orders, sex and drug cults still survive today, as do the Neo-pagan, Neo-Nazi groups, black supremacist Rastafarian potheads, prison gangs and other related filth.

Crowley occultism is also from where L. Ron Hubbard emerges with Scientology.

Homosexual deviancy is really a pagan practice (and a self-induced social psychosis) at war with the Judaic culture over what is written in the book of Genesis (1:27, 2:18).

This is exactly what the National Socialists were at war with... so, when someone uses the term "Gaystapo," they might not realize how close to the truth they really are. Eugenic breeding programs are a war against Genesis...

31 posted on 10/08/2006 2:11:36 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Salvation
Pinged from Terri OCTOBER Dailies

8mm

34 posted on 10/08/2006 4:07:37 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Salvation
American Eugenicists and the Nazis

Madison Grant

36 posted on 10/08/2006 5:49:33 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Salvation

We have reverse eugenics today....we pay the weakest among us to reproduce...


37 posted on 10/08/2006 8:01:51 AM PDT by There You Go Again
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