Posted on 10/07/2006 1:19:17 PM PDT by NYer
Dozens of Amish neighbors came out Saturday to mourn the quiet milkman who killed five of their young girls and wounded five more in a brief, unfathomable rampage.
Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, was buried in his wife's family plot behind a small Methodist church, a few miles from the one-room schoolhouse he stormed Monday.
His wife, Marie, and their three small children looked on as Roberts was buried beside the pink, heart-shaped grave of the infant daughter whose death nine years ago apparently haunted him.
About half of perhaps 75 mourners on hand were Amish.
"It's the love, the forgiveness, the heartfelt forgiveness they have toward the family. I broke down and cried seeing it displayed," said Bruce Porter, a fire department chaplain from Morrison, Colo., who had come to Pennsylvania to offer what help he could and attended the burial. He said Marie Roberts was also touched.
"She was absolutely deeply moved, by just the love shown," Porter said.
Leaders of the local Amish community were gathering Saturday afternoon at a firehouse to decide the future of the schoolhouse, and of the school year itself.
The prevailing wisdom suggested a new school would be built.
"There will definitely be a new school built, but not on that property," said Mike Hart, a spokesman for the Bart Fire Company in Georgetown.
Roberts stormed the West Nickel Mines Amish School on Monday, releasing the 15 boys and four adults before tying up and shooting the 10 girls. Roberts, who had come armed with a shotgun, a handgun and a stun gun, then killed himself.
Roberts' suicide notes and last calls with his wife reveal a man tormented by memories — as yet unsubstantiated — of molesting two young relatives 20 years ago. He said he was also angry at God for the Nov. 14, 1997, death of the couple's first child, a girl named Elise Victoria who lived for just 20 minutes.
Hart is one of two non-Amish community members serving on a 10-member board that will decide how to distribute donations that have come in following the global news coverage. One stranger walked into the firehouse Saturday morning and dropped a $100 bill in the collection jar.
The condolences flowing into the Bart Post Office filled three large cartons on Saturday — two for the Amish children and one for the Roberts clan.
"(It's) envelopes, packages, food and a lot of cards," clerk Helena Salerno said.
More than $500,000 has been pledged, some of which is expected to cover medical costs for the five surviving girls. They remain hospitalized, and one is said to be in grave condition.
As the Sabbath Day approached, close friends expected to spend Sunday paying visits to the victims' families.
The funerals for the five slain girls — Marian Fisher, 13; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Naomi Rose Ebersol, 7, and sisters Mary Liz Miller, 8, and Lena Miller, 7 — were held Thursday and Friday.
One Amish woman, an aunt to the Miller girls, set out Saturday to retrieve some of the flowers dropped near the school and bring them to the families.
She was traveling on an Amish scooter and tried to balance two potted plants before going home and returning for the task with a child's small wagon.
The massacre sent out images to the world not only of the violence, but also of a little-known community that chooses to live an insular, agrarian way of life, shunning cars, electricity and other modern conveniences.
By Saturday, the hordes of satellite trucks and stand-up reporters had mostly left the country roads, and a semblance of routine returned. Early in the morning, Amish farmers hauled farm equipment past the boarded-up school.
"It was just getting to be too much," said Jane Kreider, a 48-year-old teacher's aide in Georgetown. "It was just, 'Get out of dodge, get out of our town and we'll pull together.'"
Those Amish mourners are better people than I could ever hope to be.
"I find it nauseating when self-appointed holier-than-thou types urge me to "forgive" a murderous nutter like this guy, especially when there has been no repentance. He did no harm to me personally. If his victims' families want to forgive him, good for them and God bless them. But for me or anyone unaffected by his crazy outburst, it is arrogant and presumptuous to call for forgiveness for such an animal."
Bump
"Those Amish mourners are better people than I could ever hope to be."
I with you there, this kind of forgiveness excludes me from ever being as good of a person or Christian as these people.
One can only forgive a sinner after he asks for forgiveness and promises never to do wrong again.
The dirtball who killed those children never asked for forgiveness. Therefore it's impossible to forgive him in the Christian sense.
L
"The Amish would be the first to tell you they do not know where Roberts ended up."
They wouldnt need to as it is extremely obvious to me.
But not my will, His will be done.
I agree. It's beyond feeling like you're invading someone's privacy. And Greta's report is tonight: "Crime Scene" on FNC. I don't plan on watching it, knowing her style. I hope she had more sense than to stick a mike in anyone's face ala the Holloway case.
Its not for the gunman's sake. He will stand and kneel before God. if the Amish are unwilling to gforgive others, why would God forgive them? They like all are born sinners and do sin.
Not only this, but who can endure the chains of bitterness and wrath towards the gunmen. It may keep you warm for a time, but it would eventually consume a person.
-- snip --
Fischer said when he was in Oklahoma, he met the father of a young woman killed in the bombing.
Fischer said when he was in Oklahoma, he met the father of a young woman killed in the bombing.
The father was filled with hatred.
“He wanted revenge,” Fischer said. “It was eating him up.”
Then one day, it dawned on him that he wasn’t honoring the memory of his daughter.
“He remembered the scripture, ‘Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord,’ ” Fischer said. “If humans seek revenge, it destroys us. It is not our work. It is God’s.
“The Amish have learned that,” he said. “It’s something the rest of the world could learn from them.”
Well, you should have stopped there. That was the brick wall of your argument.
Very awe inspiring. Better than I could be I fear.
This is the umpteenth time I have heard this. I feel it's only fair for you to tell us what brand of Christianity you practice. Are you Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran? I ask because, as a Catholic, I was never taught that I could only issue forgiveness to those who asked for it. It, to me, is a very odd concept.
I think you have missed the point of forgiveness, it's not given for the sake of the sinner it is releasing the burden off the person who was sinned against. Jesus said "father forgive them" even tho none of those in the crowd was asking for forgiveness nor repenting. It is Christian to forgive when not asked.
Very well said.
The Amish who attended that funeral are far better people than I am.
I will say this: forgiveness can be a dangerous thing. Many times we urge forgiveness as a way to move along, as a way to get over past experiences, as a way to live lightly in a world without carrying the burdens of the past with us. But in light of heinous actions, knee jerk forgiveness is no solution. To the contrary, for an individual or group to be told that they need to forgive another, can simply add at times to the problem by denying or confusing who was fault. Forgiveness which is confused with the need for repentance robs people of a faith that does justice, and offers only a faith that makes nice. Perhaps then I can say with a great deal of trepidation that forgiveness is not always the Christian thing to do.
Then there's this little tidbit:
Luke 17:3-4 "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."
This child murdering piece of trash never repented. He doesn't merit forgiveness. He merits nothing but contempt.
I ask because, as a Catholic, I was never taught that I could only issue forgiveness to those who asked for it
You should correct this flaw in your religious education as soon as possible.
L
We do accept the basic grace of the Amish, and parts of it are very humbling.
But we also understand that it's the WARRIORS of our nation, and other nations, that make it possible for the Amish to carry on and be the pacifists they are.
Not having an instinct for self-defense and self-preservation is something I simply can't grasp.
You presume a lot.
God controls time and eternity. You have no idea what an infinite God can or will do. Or do think God is bound by the same laws of physics than we are? If you want to condemn the man, go ahead. But please don't pretend to know the mind and power of God.
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