I had to look that one up...
From another article, it seems the young Amish will use roller blades and scooters, but the elders frown on bikes, which provide a bit too much quick mobility.
Posted on 10/07/2006 1:19:17 PM PDT by NYer
Dozens of Amish neighbors came out Saturday to mourn the quiet milkman who killed five of their young girls and wounded five more in a brief, unfathomable rampage.
Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, was buried in his wife's family plot behind a small Methodist church, a few miles from the one-room schoolhouse he stormed Monday.
His wife, Marie, and their three small children looked on as Roberts was buried beside the pink, heart-shaped grave of the infant daughter whose death nine years ago apparently haunted him.
About half of perhaps 75 mourners on hand were Amish.
"It's the love, the forgiveness, the heartfelt forgiveness they have toward the family. I broke down and cried seeing it displayed," said Bruce Porter, a fire department chaplain from Morrison, Colo., who had come to Pennsylvania to offer what help he could and attended the burial. He said Marie Roberts was also touched.
"She was absolutely deeply moved, by just the love shown," Porter said.
Leaders of the local Amish community were gathering Saturday afternoon at a firehouse to decide the future of the schoolhouse, and of the school year itself.
The prevailing wisdom suggested a new school would be built.
"There will definitely be a new school built, but not on that property," said Mike Hart, a spokesman for the Bart Fire Company in Georgetown.
Roberts stormed the West Nickel Mines Amish School on Monday, releasing the 15 boys and four adults before tying up and shooting the 10 girls. Roberts, who had come armed with a shotgun, a handgun and a stun gun, then killed himself.
Roberts' suicide notes and last calls with his wife reveal a man tormented by memories — as yet unsubstantiated — of molesting two young relatives 20 years ago. He said he was also angry at God for the Nov. 14, 1997, death of the couple's first child, a girl named Elise Victoria who lived for just 20 minutes.
Hart is one of two non-Amish community members serving on a 10-member board that will decide how to distribute donations that have come in following the global news coverage. One stranger walked into the firehouse Saturday morning and dropped a $100 bill in the collection jar.
The condolences flowing into the Bart Post Office filled three large cartons on Saturday — two for the Amish children and one for the Roberts clan.
"(It's) envelopes, packages, food and a lot of cards," clerk Helena Salerno said.
More than $500,000 has been pledged, some of which is expected to cover medical costs for the five surviving girls. They remain hospitalized, and one is said to be in grave condition.
As the Sabbath Day approached, close friends expected to spend Sunday paying visits to the victims' families.
The funerals for the five slain girls — Marian Fisher, 13; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Naomi Rose Ebersol, 7, and sisters Mary Liz Miller, 8, and Lena Miller, 7 — were held Thursday and Friday.
One Amish woman, an aunt to the Miller girls, set out Saturday to retrieve some of the flowers dropped near the school and bring them to the families.
She was traveling on an Amish scooter and tried to balance two potted plants before going home and returning for the task with a child's small wagon.
The massacre sent out images to the world not only of the violence, but also of a little-known community that chooses to live an insular, agrarian way of life, shunning cars, electricity and other modern conveniences.
By Saturday, the hordes of satellite trucks and stand-up reporters had mostly left the country roads, and a semblance of routine returned. Early in the morning, Amish farmers hauled farm equipment past the boarded-up school.
"It was just getting to be too much," said Jane Kreider, a 48-year-old teacher's aide in Georgetown. "It was just, 'Get out of dodge, get out of our town and we'll pull together.'"
Maybe because they do not wish to live the rest of their lives in bitterness over what happened to them?
I guess some people simply cannot accept the basic grace of what the Amish has done here. Heck, Mineral Man is an atheist and HE gets it.
These are wonderful pictures, words, deeds, concepts that have been spread around the world by the media that y'all are all so mad at.
I wouldn't have it any other way - why hide the Amish light under a bushel basket? Proclaim it to the world. *Then,* go away.
"God hasn't forgiven the gunman, why should the Amish?"
Because the Amish are not deities, and because Jesus told them to forgive the gunman.
According to the teachings of Jesus, his followers are called on to forgive and to leave judgment of others to their deity.
The Amish would tell you that they cannot know whether God has forgiven this murderer or not, but that they, themselves, are called upon to do so by the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was very clear about this, and the Amish are very clear in their intent to follow those teachings.
You can find everything you need to know about what the Amish believe in Matthew. It's all there, clear as a bell.
You may not believe exactly what the Amish believe, but they sure as heck follow what they believe...to the letter. No doubt, some in the affected community are struggling with this forgiveness. They're only human, after all. But, the community, as a whole, believes in, and follows, the teachings of Jesus, himself. They're devout in that.
Since you're not Amish, they wouldn't expect you to do the same.
Them forgiving his family is awe inspiring.
Forgiveness that matters to the perp is out of their hands. I assume they are mourning his eternity in hell.
The Amish would be the first to tell you they do not know where Roberts ended up.
Yes, I am an atheist. That, however, does not mean that I cannot see the utter wisdom of Jesus' words, as recorded in the four Gospels.
They form part of my own ethic, along with similar teachings from several other religions. There have been some few great moral teachers on this planet, and a few of them have had their words set down for posterity.
It is remarkable how similar the core teachings of all are to each other. Once you get beyond the specifics of one deity or another, or even a group of them, the core teachings are almost identical.
Being an atheist does not mean rejecting the wisdom of human society.
I had to look that one up...
From another article, it seems the young Amish will use roller blades and scooters, but the elders frown on bikes, which provide a bit too much quick mobility.
I would expect them to forgive the family - they didn't commit the crime. In fact, there's nothing to forgive the family for!
I agree with Christian teachings, but if you want to believe in concepts like "the just war", there comes a time to put forgiveness aside and bring out a little harsh human judgment.
You don't have to stew in hate, but you don't have to be completely passive either. It's OK to think of this gunman and think of him as evil. That's what we do with terrorists. I don't forgive the 9-11 hijackers, nor do I let my hatred of them consume me. I simply think of them as evil and use that thought as a reminder of the evil of which men are capable. Forgive the terrorists? No thanks. I'm happy with the idea that they are burning in Hell. Forgive this gunman? No thanks to that, too.
"You don't have to stew in hate, but you don't have to be completely passive either. It's OK to think of this gunman and think of him as evil. That's what we do with terrorists. I don't forgive the 9-11 hijackers, nor do I let my hatred of them consume me. I simply think of them as evil and use that thought as a reminder of the evil of which men are capable. Forgive the terrorists? No thanks. I'm happy with the idea that they are burning in Hell. Forgive this gunman? No thanks to that, too.
"
As I said, you are not part of the Amish community. They would not expect you to follow their ways. I am not part of their community, either, but do understand where they are coming from.
Believe as you can. Follow what you are able to follow. But do not insist that others follow your path. The Amish are doing just fine on their path. It is one very close to the teachings of Jesus. Your expectations of the Amish are probably of very little interest to them.
The Amish are a dear and wonderful people. If the world hasn't learned that from this tragedy, we are in a great deal more trouble that I thought we were.
This was not a war. It was one deranged man. My judgement of him is harsh, but I was not the one who lost a relative. I defer to those who did in this case.
I live in the middle of a large community of Amish here in Ashland county Ohio.I can tell everyone here that the Christian ideals that many folks aim for-these people live every day.Their faith in God humbles me.
The Just War Theory was first formulated by Augustine - a great Christian thinker, recognized by Protestants and Catholics alike.
Jesus commanded His followers to forgive and even love their enemies. He even said that if we don't forgive each other, God won't forgive us. But that doesn't preclude judgment from God or the government. Paul urged Christians to bless their persecutors, but he also wrote that the government is "God's agent of wrath to punish evildoers". It does not, he said, bear the sword in vain.
Incidentally, loving your enemies doesn't mean having warm, fuzzy feelings for them - let alone pretending to yourself they're good when you know better. The terrorists and the gunman are evil by Christian standards. No one's asking you to think otherwise.
From Romans 12:
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
I read this story and weep.
I find it nauseating when self-appointed holier-than-thou types urge me to "forgive" a murderous nutter like this guy, especially when there has been no repentance. He did no harm to me personally. If his victims' families want to forgive him, good for them and God bless them. But for me or anyone unaffected by his crazy outburst, it is arrogant and presumptuous to call for forgiveness for such an animal.
In some respects it is even like the competitive altruism of hippie backpackers parachuting into Third World hell holes to see who can hold hands with the most dying babies. The focus falls on the loud third-party dispenser of pious forgiveness, rather than on the victims of the perpetrator.
Also, there are are a lot of soft headed leftists who think "forgiveness" means murderers and other criminals shouldn't have to pay the price for their misdeeds. They are mistaking God's law for man's.
If a man murdered my child and got sent to death row, and did not ask me for forgiveness, I would watch him go to his execution with a hardened heart. If he begged me for forgiveness, I would try hard to find that spark of Christian love that would allow me to do so, and remove the hatred from my heart. But even then, I would not ask the authorities to let him go free. Forgiveness has meaning only in the realm of the spirit, not under the laws of Man.
-ccm
Then you read something like this and you realize that you're going to be very, very, very lucky if they relegate you to some tiny dark closet on the far reaches of heaven where you can only see the reflected light of His passing through the cracks in the wall.
I agree with you without any condition whatsoever.
Its also comforting to know the perp (as well as the 9-11 terrorists) will recieve due punishment from The Almighty Himself.
"The gunman is trash and I'm thankful he's dead."
Don't you think that if a person such as this murderer had his or her choice, they would not have brought this horrible event into the lives of others, none the less his own children? These kind of killings have to be propelled by a thought process that no sane person can even begin to understand.
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