"Flyboys" Movie worth our attention

Self | September 24, 2006 | Oyez

[oyez]

(I havn't posted a topic in years so please bear with me.)

We finally get a story of good American volunteer-ism, comradeship and adventure without the pacifist claptrap. This is the kind of war movie the public has been asking for for sometime. I'm not a movie expert but it is in the spirit of Howard Hughes's "Hell's Angels", but not as classic. It is done in an acceptable context that schools could use as video material. There is no bad language just the pain and horror of war.

I have not read any reviews of the movie, but I can predict the critics will call it another shallow, unrealistic piece of "America saves the world" genera.

Lafayette Escadrille did not save France or anyone else, it gave the French the assurance the Americans were kindred in spirit of the price of freedom.

I sometimes regret America ever got the ball rolling by joining in WWI. Had we not, the war would have ended in 1920. The armistice would have been written with the same mistakes and with seeds for the next war. America would have been spared of the casualties, the expense, the depression of the '30's, and the devastation of the Spanish flu.

Then again we wouldn't have had the dress rehearsal for WWII.

I fear that yet within a few years the clarion call will go out for "America to save us all" once again.

I invite comments form FR. Most are more eloquent than I.

[Spktyr]

As David Drake points out, "Wars start when two countries think they can weach win. As it happens, they are wrong more than half the time."

[Uriah_lost]

....and it appears the planes were all made of high-explosive materials rather than the doped canvas and spruce we had always believed.

[Sci Fi Guy]

I just saw it. My friends and I enjoyed it. Great Fight scenes, positive message. Only negative was that the plot was rather conventional, and took a while to develop. You knew the movie was over when the Bad guy who flew the black plane gets what's coming to him.

[Spktyr]

WW1 biplanes were *very* fragile and *very* flammable - which is why many pilots loaded incendiary rounds in their guns, which usually lead to explosions when they hit a fuel tank (very common).

You might want to look into some of the materials that they used to dope the canvas in that era. Some of the ingredients they used are better known as components of explosives today...

[Strategerist]

Read up on what the Germans did in Belgium and you may change your tune (for a long time considered Entente propaganda, it turns out the "Huns" there were basically as nasty as the British and French claimed.)

[oyez]

The whole engine turned around its crankshaft

Only the French could come up with an innovation like that. Are their any of those left operating?

[Spktyr]

Everyone used the radial engine (which is what that design is a variant of). In fact, some of the most successful fighters of WW2 used radial engines.

[oyez]

materials that they used to dope the canvas in that era.

Methyl cellulose compounds all related to Celluloid and gun cotton. On the other hand, A hydrogen filled Zeppelin flying into battle looks like a lousy bet to me.

[Snickering Hound]

These guys make kits so you can build your own full or 3/4 size WW1 airplane.

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/

Rotec still makes rotary engines that you can put in these ultralights.

[UNGN]

Read up on what the Germans did in Belgium and you may change your tune (for a long time considered Entente propaganda, it turns out the "Huns" there were basically as nasty as the British and French claimed.)

Also if was in the context of the movie that the allies were talking about how nasty the huns were, that would be 100% historically acurate.

Nobody in the military would be trying to humanize the enemy in order to understand their motivations. That is a more recent phenomenon.

Manfred Richtofen was as gentlemanly as the huns got and he said that he shot at the pilot not the plane. Killing a "helpless" pilot would not have mattered to him in the least. A kill is a kill.

[UNGN]

Everyone used the radial engine (which is what that design is a variant of). In fact, some of the most successful fighters of WW2 used radial engines.

But none of the modern radials bolt the crankshaft to the firewall and the propeller to the engine block. That is pure French innovation.

[mozarky2]

A ladies auxiliary group from a church liked to schedule some of the more colorful local characters to speak at their monthly meetings. On one of these occassions, a WWI fighter pilot was speaking to the ladies.
Regaling them with his exploits, he recalled: "There I was over the south of France when I saw a Fokker in front of me! I looked back and there was a Fokker behind me! I looked around and there were Fokkers to the right and to the left of me! There were Fokkers above and below me! There were..."
"Pardon me sir, but could you please explain to the ladies that a Fokker was a WWI German fighter plane?" asked an obviously embarrassed lady from the audience.
"Oh, you're right ma'am, but them Fokkers was flyin' Messerschmitts!"

[WestVirginiaRebel]

It sounds like the kind of old-fashioned war picture that I thought Hollyweird had forgotten how to make.

With regards to the 1918 flu and Depression, since the flu was a virus it probably would have reached America eventually, The Depression probably would have happened even if there had been no war.

[BurrOh]

LOL!!

[Snickering Hound]

The radial engine and the rotary engine are two different types. The radial engine is still in service in old propellor driven airliners that you can find in cargo and passenger service in more remote areas of the world. Examples include the DC3, DC6, and some famous fighters of world war 2 and later such as the P-47 Thunderbolt and the Douglas Skyraider.

The rotary engine operated differently in that the whole engine rotated around a stationary crankshaft. The propellor was typically attached to the engine instead of the crankshaft. This simplified cooling the engine and fuel and oil delivery. It was very light for the horsepower that it put out making it rather popular until the engines became so heavy that the aircraft were impossible to control. By the 1920's it was realized that this was an engineering dead end as aircraft grew in size and speed. One drawback of this engine concept was that the throttle could not be controlled so the engine either ran at full power or was "blipped" off using a switch in the cockpit.

If you listen to one of those old rotary powered aircraft you hear them going BRRRRR.......BRRRRRRRRRR......BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR as the pilot flicks the power on and off.

[packrat35]

Actually the Spanish flu started in America. Check it out on google. First people to get it were soldiers in the mid West.

[oyez]

It thinking that the first cases of Spanish Flu were at diagnosed Fort Leonard Wood or near by. My opinion is that if it were not so many people mobilized the bug would not have as been so serious.

I once had a neighbor that was a WWI vet who was stricken with flu just before he was to arrive at the front lines. He claimed that we could not account for an entire month that he was in the hospital. He said his doctors expected him to die. He did die the age of 96.

[william clark]

I'm not a movie expert but it is in the spirit of Howard Hughes's "Hell's Angels", but not as classic.

Actually, despite some great aerial and miniature sequences, "Hell's Angels" is a laughably bad movie. I'm hoping "Flyboys" is several cuts above in the story department.

[Polybius]

From the previews I've seen the aircraft perform maneuvers that would shame todays F-15's. That and EVERY german aircraft is a red triplane (Apparently Hollywood thinks audiences are too stupid to keep track of whats going on otherwise). Hollywood just refuses to accurately model aircraft performance these days...

From the trailers I saw, the movie will be disappointing to anybody that is a serious student of World War One aviation history. No attention whatsoever was given to the historical accuracy of aircraft markings or what aircraft were involved. The aircraft were so mixed up in regards to time periods, unit colors and markings and operational sectors that it was as if Twelve O'Clock High were a movie about the Eighth Air Force bombing the Afrika Korps on Guadalcanal.

Since the aircraft special effects were computer generated and World War One marking are better documented today than ever before, there is really no excuse.

If Hollywood wanted lots of gas bags exploding in fireballs and epic heroism as well as a complicated personality, rather than resorting to pure historical fantasy, they should have done a movie about Frank Luke.

[karnage]

Please see the movie before slamming it. The director, Tony Bill, is himself a champion aerobatic pilot (I flew with him in a biplane and nearly lost my lunch with the spectacular maneuvers he performed). Tony worked closely with aviators in staging the action. It's an excellent movie that shows the courage and morality of the AMericna volunteers.