McCain Stand Comes at a Price

LA Times ^ | 09-19-06 | By Janet Hook and Richard Simon, Times Staff Writers

[MNJohnnie]

WASHINGTON — Conservative activists are heaping criticism on Sen. John McCain for fighting President Bush over proposed rules for the interrogation of terrorism suspects, a dispute that has reopened long-standing divisions between the maverick Republican lawmaker and his party's establishment.

The attack from the right, which coalesced over the weekend, could undercut McCain's effort to woo Bush backers and other party regulars for an anticipated 2008 presidential bid. His position on terrorism prisoners has fueled critics' skepticism about McCain's conservative credentials.

"This very definitely is going to put a chilling effect on the tremendous strides he has made in the conservative evangelical community," said the Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition, one of several conservative activists who support Bush's proposal on interrogation techniques.

Even as conservative leaders berated McCain for refusing to yield to Bush, the high-profile battle could burnish the Arizonan's credentials among admirers who have been concerned about his moves to court the GOP establishment.

[JasonC]

Iran is getting nuclear weapons and torturing people in Cuba isn't going to stop it. Nor is Bush. Nor are you. That's losing.

[nopardons]

America IS my nation! Apparently is is NOT yours at all; it is not yours, because you don't give a damn about America nor her populace.

Comparing me to Ahmadinejad is spurious libel. But it DOES allow everyone reading this thread to understand that you are worse than Quisling ever was.

You have no comprehension, whatsoever, of war, what's at stake, nor what it has and will continue to take to win against today's enemies. Unlike you, I have posted no lies, I am NOT a bleeding hearted liberal, nor am pretending to be in the majority...I AM IN THE MAJORTY and YOU are not!

[Cyropaedia]

You're dead right. I don't know what planet Jason's living on right now but it is not down here on planet Earth.

[JasonC]

No, it really isn't. See, America is a decent and idealist spiritual entity, and you have no use for its principles and prefer those of hell, so you have moved your loyalty from my nation to a location slightly lower. No doubt you do so in the belief that power and expediency reward ruthlessness and torture, since that after all is your religion. It is also Ahmadinejad's relgion - he learned his ideas of political conduct as a torturer and executioner in the early 1980s, devising ways to make men entirely within his power "sing" before cutting their throats. And he liked it, it gave him a hard on, it made him feel big and important and invincible, just like you, maybe more even. You've only had the initial course after all, and he still has more levels to initiate you into his special society of perverted power mad fiends. But you are coming along nicely and Screwtape is well pleased with your progress so far. The moral contagion of evil is working overtime and has already colonized what little there was on your conscience, and now will whisper to you how necessary it all is, how expedient, and meanwhile your mere twisted heart will be just glowing inside with your righteous power over these scum and the revenge of it all, and you too will get a hard on, and soon you will be looking around for people you can hit until you ejaculate, like the SS guards at Dachau. No, you are not an American, you haven't any idea what the word even means.

[JasonC]

Study what France did in Algeria, then study what happened in consequence, look around at what the torturers are defending here on FR today, and then we will talk. No doubt our actual men in the field are vastly better than the hotheads here. But if they aren't, I can promise them all courts martial and firing and long jail sentences - soon.

[Cyropaedia]

No, it really isn't. See, America is a decent and idealist spiritual entity, and you have no use for its principles and prefer those of hell, so you have moved your loyalty from my nation to a location slightly lower. No doubt you do so in the belief that power and expediency reward ruthlessness and torture, since that after all is your religion. It is also Ahmadinejad's relgion - he learned his ideas of political conduct as a torturer and executioner in the early 1980s, devising ways to make men entirely within his power "sing" before cutting their throats. And he liked it, it gave him a hard on, it made him feel big and important and invincible, just like you, maybe more even. You've only had the initial course after all, and he still has more levels to initiate you into his special society of perverted power mad fiends. But you are coming along nicely and Screwtape is well pleased with your progress so far. The moral contagion of evil is working overtime and has already colonized what little there was on your conscience, and now will whisper to you how necessary it all is, how expedient, and meanwhile your mere twisted heart will be just glowing inside with your righteous power over these scum and the revenge of it all, and you too will get a hard on, and soon you will be looking around for people you can hit until you ejaculate, like the SS guards at Dachau. No, you are not an American, you haven't any idea what the word even means.

Dude, seriously, you're starting to scare me....wow.

BTW, read my tagline.

[nopardons]

Thank you and I agree with you, too.

[nopardons]

"...America is a decent and idealist spiritual entity........"

REALLY?

Most, if not ALL of the original 13 colonies used torture.The witch trials were not isolated to Salem, Mass.; there took place all over New England and in N.Y. state as well.

What YOU would call "torture" ( public ridicule , being placed in the stocks, having a piece of split wood attached to the tongue ) was used on criminals, as well on those who committed lesser "crimes", such as gossiping, missing a church service, caught napping, when they should have been working, etc.!

Once we were a nation, what you would call "torture" continued. Slaves were branded, beaten, and returned runaways had the tendons in first one and then the other leg severed.

You're quite facile at consigning me to hell, repeatedly, using vulgar/coarse sexual terms ( which are against posting rules, BTW ), claiming that "torture" is part of my "religion and distorting America, American history, war, what we have and have NOT done to prisoners. Frankly, this gives one pause, concerning your own credentials and standing; not to mention the state of your mental health.

How old are you and what is your religious affiliation?

[nopardons]

There will be NO court martials, no firing squads, and NO jail sentences for ANY of those who engaged in the water boarding, sleep deprivation, playings of THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS; NONE! The president has already taken care of that.

Here's a helpful hint..............YOU AREN'T THE PRESIDENT, YOU AREN'T A MEMBER OF CONGRESS, YOU DON'T HEAD THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, AND YOU AREN'T A FEDERAL NOR MILITARY JUDGE! In other words, YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO POWER!

[LifeOrGoods?]

I think Rudy G. is serious on the WOT, so think he stands a good chance even in the South. McCain is a poor excuse for a leader as anyone in the GOP. I don't understand why he is even a candidate. The Republicans too often forget that the right wing voters of the party are the key to victory.

[LifeOrGoods?]

Who is kidding who? If the founding fathers had access to the modern military technology America has today, they would have blown up every terrorist in the world by now and would not have even thought of trying nary a one of them and without apology.

[RobbyS]

Like calling the outcome of a horserace at the midpoint with the horses closely packed?

[Jacquerie]

Abhorrence of McCain’s politics to the point of denigrating his accomplishments is immature. To belittle and mock the exploits of a service arm because of one man’s politics is far worse. For a service spouse to do so is despicable.

If you are willing to overcome ignorance and probably shed a tear, start with Over the Beach, The Air War in Vietnam by Zalin Grant (1986). While the author minimizes nautical and aviation jargon, there may be some areas that will not be clear to the civilian reader. I will be happy to clear any confusion.

Afterwards, review your shrieking posts to my comments. You will be embarrassed and ashamed.

My service? United States Navy 1972-1994. Dear.

[Armedanddangerous]

All he has to do is change to Democrat. McLame's beliefs are so close to the Dims that no one would notice the difference.

[Armedanddangerous]

Dont forget his fondness for gun control.

[chuckles]

...."I think Rudy G. is serious on the WOT"....

I'm sure he is, but he is also serious about gay rights, abortion, gun control, and other things the South will find unacceptable.

[zerosix]

And your point is? In fact so are many of the homeless drunks, drug addicts in homeless shelters in many major cites.

[Jeff Chandler]

My point is that McCain was a POW. Once that is stated, the subject is closed and no more debate is allowed.

[mad_as_he$$]

And he deserves to be NUTS because of it. He doesn't deserve to be President - because he is NUTS! Pass the strawberries please.

[Jeff Chandler]

He's a maverick and he was a POW. Isn't that enough?