Chinese-Americans cheer arrival of Chinese navy ships (September, 2006)

What is meant by 'accepted'? Do you mean they are more widely acknowleged?

Very few things are overt anymore (and I'm not suggesting we return to those day, BTW).

But one can't help but notice the subtle differences.

I was at a St. Patrick's Day celebration once in my city. It was quite festive. The dancers and entertainers wore green. And they wore red wigs and painted freckles on thier faces and did traditional Irish dances. And the general public was quite supportive and attended en masse.

Cinco de Mayo... well.... it's accepted in a sense when people discuss a reason for drinking and such. But if there was a parade in which it celebrated Mexican culture, it just doesn't have that same level or feel or support of being part of Americana as St. Patrick's day.

First of all, it’s obvious you don’t even understand what I said.

All cultures have a “we” and “them” mentality. I never said that was specific to Asian cultures. I said their way differentiating “us” and “them” is blood based. So many Chinese Americans think of themselves as Chinese with American passports, the don’t think of themselves as American.

Secondly, research is simple, go do some reading.
Read books written by people in those cultures, read books written by others who have studied those cultures. Read multiple sources, that will be a start, you can also visit those places and talk to people, observe them, etc.

How can one reason with that.

I think there's scorn as well. I was watching this one program about something controversial. This one guy said "Chinese people want to have it both ways. They celebrate their Chinese heritage and expect to be called Americans".

That really is hurtful. And most of all, it is the sentiment of most white Americans. To celebrate shouldn't be seen as having it both ways any more than Irish Americans.

So many Chinese Americans think of themselves as Chinese with American passports, the don’t think of themselves as American.

....hmmmm....it's a bit of a stretch I believe. There are first generation immigrants and then there are second generation immigrants and thereafter. I can assure you, second and above do not see themselves in this light. As far as a first generation Chinese immigrants are concerned, I would say there is a sentiment that is different from the 2nd and beyond, in that they are more culturally tied to their original culture. But not in the way you describe it. And, more similar in degree to the European immigrants of the past.

Based upon what you’ve said here I’m afraid you’ll never experience satisfaction, and there’s nothing else to say other than wish you luck in dealing with your feelings of resentment.

Thanks for you input. But honestly, I do feel my observation is correct. The initiation of this thread and the following early postings demonstrated it.

Of course the sentiment will diminish the generations go on, because each successive generation is exposed to more American culture and more distant from Chinese culture.

But comparatively speaking, given equal generation immigrant, the Asian immigrant will always be proportionated more self-identified with the country of his origin, and this is probably true for 3 or 4 generations before this effect becomes negligible.

And I probably wouldn't disagree with you. And I don't expect America at large to be as cheerful and supportive of Chinese New Years as St. Patrick's day (despite the fact that I've noted that observation on this thread).

Rather, is that subtle difference, sufficient enough, when similar actions are conducted (e.g., European Americans welcoming visitors from their nation of heritage vs Chinese Americans welcoming visitors from their nation of heritage), that brands one group as warm and friendly (i.e., those of European heritage) and the other group as traitorous to America (Chinese or other non-European)? That subtle difference, it appears you are saying, is enough to fully justify the attitudes of a certain segment of the American population that is reflected by the visceral early responses on this thread.

It’s not subtle in the first couple of generations.

The CIA knows this. A couple of years ago I read an article about how they are shocked at how effective the PRC agents are at convincing first and even second generation Chinese-American scientists into becoming spies for them.

When I read that I laughed. I wasn’t shocked at all. if you self identify as Chinese to begin with, how hard would it be to convince you to work for the govt of China rather than the US.

The Chinese have an old saying: “not of our blood, his heart will ultimately betray us.” That is their attitude. That’s why culturally the Chinese don’t adopt children in the same numbers that western cultures do, that they are particularly confounded that Americans would go to China and adopt Chinese children. They don’t understand why we’d do it, because they would NEVER do that themselves.

All this is to say that this isn’t just about whether somebody celebrates St Patrick’s day or the Chinese New Year. In the long run who cares, that’s not important. But these cultural attitudes affect more than the the holidays we celebrate, it affects actions that are far more important. Even our national security. And frankly, although I don’t agree with all the aspect of the Japanese Internment Camps during WWII (such as property confiscation, etc). There were legitimate reasons why we did it, and we didn’t do it to the same degree to German and Italian Americans, because the level of threat from those groups are not equal, and not because “America was racist against Asians”.

So, what you're saying is that those people waiving the flags, as pictured in the article, are all likely to act as agents on behalf of the Chinese government, whereas, those waiving the flag for say Queen Elizabeth would all die for their country rather than to ever betray it? All Chinese should be implicated?

Well, you just put us right back where we started.

I know one Chinese American (first generation) very well, who during his capture, rather than give away information faced a firing squad. Oh, it was a German firing squad during WWII.

And during the Cold War, I saw alot of news report of those who sold secrets to the USSR. And they didn't look Chinese to me. They didn't even look Asian.

Betraying a country has it's issue with one's character and not their cultural sentiment.

“I know one Chinese American (first generation) very well, who during his capture, rather than give away information faced a firing squad. Oh, it was a German firing squad during WWII.”

Irrelevant. The Chinese were our allies in WWII. And even if he were Japanese it doesn’t prove anything, I never said all Asians were traitors.

“And during the Cold War, I saw alot of news report of those who sold secrets to the USSR. And they didn’t look Chinese to me. They didn’t even look Asian.”

Strawman, since I never suggested that only Asians can become traitors. Only that their cultural attitude makes them higher likelihood candidates.

“Betraying a country has it’s issue with one’s character and not their cultural sentiment.”

You really are ignorant. The entire issue is that *culture affects which country one identifies as his country*. If in one’s heart China is one’s country, than spying for them is not *betrayal*, it’s *loyalty*. In fact that is exactly how many of these spies are turned. The Chinese agents turn them by *appealing to their sense of honor, loyalty and patriotism*.

Irrelevant. The Chinese were our allies in WWII. And even if he were Japanese it doesn’t prove anything, I never said all Asians were traitors.

It is when one is trying to balance the intent of an arguement.

Strawman, since I never suggested that only Asians can become traitors. Only that their cultural attitude makes them higher likelihood candidates.

I just wanted to clarify. So, what is the likelihood? Is it 10 times higher? And how to you quantify those who don't. Are they still in the 90+% range (that is, those who don't become traitors)?

You really are ignorant.

I don't believe so.

The entire issue is that *culture affects which country one identifies as his country*. If in one’s heart China is one’s country, than spying for them is not *betrayal*, it’s *loyalty*. In fact that is exactly how many of these spies are turned. The Chinese agents turn them by *appealing to their sense of honor, loyalty and patriotism*.

When you say spies, are you talking of someone who deliberately and maliciously remove documents from their place of work OR are you branding someone a spy because they return to their home country to use their skills to start a business or work in their labs?

“It is when one is trying to balance the intent of an arguement.”

Then you don’t know how to make logical arguments.

“I just wanted to clarify. So, what is the likelihood? Is it 10 times higher? And how to you quantify those who don’t. Are they still in the 90+% range (that is, those who don’t become traitors)?”

Nobody can quantify human behaviors and preferences such as these. It’s like asking if person A is 64% or only 62% more attractive than person B. Just because we can’t quantify them numerically doesn’t mean everyone is equally attractive.

“You really are ignorant.
“I don’t believe so. “

Well, the ignorant never think they are.

“When you say spies, are you talking of someone who deliberately and maliciously remove documents from their place of work or...”

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. That’s what the CIA is talking about when they say PRC agents are shockingly effective are turning Chinese American scientists. Stop trying to play these PC word games.

You obvious don’t know anything about this subject, everything you’ve said in this thread is not based on knowledge but on your wishful speculations. Go learn the facts before you waste any more of everyone’s time.

Well, the ignorant never think they are.

....hmmmm....interestin perspective. So, cannot I not use that same arguement on you :)

Go learn the facts before you waste any more of everyone’s time.

You have the freedom to not reply :)

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.