Skip to comments.The Street Cred of Manuel II [Byzantine emperor quoted by the pope]
Posted on 09/17/2006 4:49:13 PM PDT by madprof98
Manuel II Paleologus reigned as emperor of Byzantium from 1391, the year in which he is believed to have composed the text from which the Pope quoted last week, until his death in 1425. A brief overview of his experience of Islam:
1390: Manuel is sent as a hostage to the court of Sultan Bayezid I. As his writings demonstrate, he reads widely in Muslim texts and engages in repeated debates with Muslim scholars. He is also forced to participate in an attack on his own people, the siege of Philadelphia, which eliminated the last Byzantine settlement in Anatolia.
1394-1402: The Ottomans besiege Constantinople. For some five years, Manuel directs the defense of the city in person. Then he entrusts Constantinople to his nephew and embarks on a tour of the West, seeking assistance.
1422: The Ottomans attack Manuel in Constantinople once again.
By the time of his death in 1425, Manuel had spent virtually his entire adult life in the struggle against an armed and expansionist Islamand in 1453, just over a quarter of a century later, the Ottomans would finally conquer the empire he had defended.
The point? One may certainly argue that Islam had no monopoly on fourteenth and fifteenth century violenceManuel himself had to resist several attempts by members of his own family to deny him the throne. What one may not, argue, I think, is that Manuel lacked the authority or knowledge to speak about Islam. When he described efforts to spread by the sword the faith [the Prophet] preached, he wasn't mouthing some sort of ignorant medieval prejudice. He knew exactly what he was talking about.
I'm eager for someone to provide the original conversation between Manuel II Paleologus and the Islamic scholar cited in this recent controversy. Anyone?
Exactly, try looking into the various crusades the islamicists launched into the west. They even took slaves from Ireland if you could imagine.
The turkishmuslims also used to go through christian vilalges taking strong young boys and converting them into muslims as a sort of "shock troop/elite force" known as Jannisaries.
They were the ones who took Byzantium.
Supposedly the text of the conversation between Manuel II paleologus and the Islamic scholar can be found in Dialogue 7 of Twenty-six Dialogues with a Persian. Now I just need to find that document...
But it's the religion of peeeeece - or didn't you get the message?
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus
Manuel II Palaeologus (1350 - July 21, 1425) was intellectual, soldier, statesman, and Byzantine emperor (1391-1425). He was son of John V Palaeologus, and when his father died, in February 1391, he escaped fron the turkish camp where he was kept as prisoner, and came to Constantinople to regain his throne (he had been crowned co-emperor in September 1373). The situation of the Greek Empire was desperate. Turks had conquered most of the byzantine provinces, had devastated and pillaged the big cities and had enslaved thousands women, young boys and girls. Manuel was forced to pay tribute to the Sultan Bayezid and was forced to follow him to his raids against the Greek cities. His chagrin was strong when he observed the Ottomans destroy and plunder the cities of Euxenus Pontus (Black Sea) and other cities of Minor Asia. When he asked Turks the names of christian cities that were pillaged and devastated, he received the answer: "the way we destroy them their name is also disappearing from earth...".
In 1392 he married Helena Dragases, daughter of the Serb Despot Constantine Dragases. The ceremeny of the marriage took place in the church of Aghia Sophia and Helena was crowned empress by the Patriarch Antonios. The magnificent ceremenoy with all the details of the byzantine protocol has been saved by the Russian sightseer Ignatius.
In 1394, the Sultan with his army laid siege to Constantinople and this blockade was to last eight years, bringing despair and hunger to the population of the city. In 1396 the united christian forces of Europe under the leadership of the king of Hungary Sighismund, in an effort to drive away the Turkish invaders from Europe, were defeated in the battle of Nicopolis. Thousands of Franks, Germans, Italians, Polish were killed, all the prisoners were slaughtered and Turks were free to pour south. They overran Thessaly and the Peloponnese and in their usual way they ravaged and devastated the territories they crossed through. According to the historian Donald Nicol, the city of Argos of 30000 inhabitants was totally eliminated and all population was perished.
From here: http://members.fortunecity.com/fstav1/emperors/john_manuel2.html
The Muslims after taking The Iberian Peninsula got as far North as Tours, France where they were turned back in 1732 by the Army of Charles Martel. This marked the high water mark of Islamic conquests in Europe and brought about the end of the "Dark Ages".
Yes, just so. And the Muslim atrocities during the period leading up to the fall of Byzantium were frequent and horrible, in the lands of Asia Minor.
After the fall of Byzantium, the Turks took over Greece. One of the taxes the Greeks were forced to pay was a certain number of newly born children from each village, who were taken in caravans and by ship to Byzantium where they became slaves of the Turks. Many were trained up as Janissaries--formerly Christian children raised to fight against their own people.
I have also been trying to find the scholars response to the Paleologus quote cited by the Pope.....I believe the scholars answer regarding what mohammed brough new except for things evil and inhuman would be overtly specious at best.
The only edition I can find is a 1966 German translation published in Vienna.
Dialoge mit einem Perser, ed. Erich Trapp, (In Kommission bei G. Böhlaus), Wien 1966
"Polite company" presumes the presence of a civilized people -- Islam doesn't fit that description.
Here's the ISBN for it: ISBN 3-7001-0965-2
That would be 732, not 1732. Coincidentally, this past week was the anniversary of the defeat of jihadis at Vienna, about a thousand years after the Battle of Tours. Jihad is not a response to American support for Israel.
"turned back in 1732 "
try 732 AD NOT 1732 for the Battle of Tours
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.