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Jurors want reprimand for Navy chaplain
Associated Press ^ | Sep. 14, 2006 | SONJA BARISIC

Posted on 09/14/2006 10:29:02 AM PDT by Dubya

NORFOLK, Va. - A jury recommended Thursday that a Navy chaplain receive a letter of reprimand for disobeying an order by appearing in uniform at a political news conference at the White House.

The jury also recommended that Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt forfeit $250 pay per month for a year but suggested that the monetary punishment be suspended.

Rear Adm. Frederic Ruhe, commander of the Navy's Mid-Atlantic Region, must decide whether to approve the recommendation.

The jury of five officers at Klingenschmitt's special court-martial determined Wednesday that he had disobeyed a superior officer's order prohibiting him from wearing his uniform during media appearances without prior permission.

Klingenschmitt said he believes he was punished for making a political speech in uniform because he prayed in Jesus' name. He had argued that he was allowed to wear his uniform if conducting a "bona fide worship service."

"I will continue to pray in Jesus' name, I will continue to worship in public and I will not be broken," he said Wednesday.

He said he would appeal the conviction and fight to remain a chaplain. He said senior naval officials had already decided to fire him before the March 30 event, which protested Navy policy requiring nondenominational prayers outside of religious services.

Last December, the chaplain went on an 18-day hunger strike in front of the White House over the right to invoke Jesus' name outside such services.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: firstamendment; klingenschmitt; militarychaplain; moralabsolutes; navychaplain
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1 posted on 09/14/2006 10:29:03 AM PDT by Dubya
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To: All
Klingenschmitt said he believes he was punished for making a political speech in uniform because he prayed in Jesus' name. He had argued that he was allowed to wear his uniform if conducting a "bona fide worship service."

"I will continue to pray in Jesus' name, I will continue to worship in public and I will not be broken," he said Wednesday.

2 posted on 09/14/2006 10:30:22 AM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: All
The Chaplains I met while I was in the Marines sure wouldn't pray in Jesus' name. This Christian sailor has what it takes.
3 posted on 09/14/2006 10:32:51 AM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: Dubya

Just boot this 10 percenter out...He's already proven to be a cancer on the COC.


4 posted on 09/14/2006 10:36:27 AM PDT by Wristpin ("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: Dubya

If it was a political event, praying in the name of Jesus had nothing to do with it. Military members are not allowed to appear at political events in uniform.


5 posted on 09/14/2006 10:37:46 AM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: Dubya

I respectfully disagree. He's in the military and he's obligated to follow orders. We can't have thousands of soldiers disobeying superiors whenever they feel like it.


6 posted on 09/14/2006 10:38:19 AM PDT by leilani (Dimmi, dimmi se mai fu fatta cosa alcuna!)
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To: Dubya

I just don't understand the problem here.

The guy's a US Navy Chaplain. So, he got a court martial because he wore his uniform to some type of political event in front of the White House? Is that it?

And now he says he's being persecuted because he's praying in Jesus' name. Well, if he's a Christian chaplain, of course he prays in Jesus' name. That's axiomatic.

I don't get it.


7 posted on 09/14/2006 10:40:26 AM PDT by RexBeach (Will Rogers Never Met Bill Clinton.)
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To: Dubya

"The jury of five officers at Klingenschmitt's special court-martial determined Wednesday that he had disobeyed a superior officer's order prohibiting him from wearing his uniform during media appearances without prior permission.

Klingenschmitt said he believes he was punished for making a political speech in uniform because he prayed in Jesus' name."





I was pretty political my first time around in the military, but I carefully obeyed the law about wearing the uniform while doing my personal activities.


8 posted on 09/14/2006 10:41:46 AM PDT by ansel12 (Life is exquisite... of great beauty, keenly felt.)
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To: Dubya

This must be one of the Christian extremists Rosie was worried about. /sarc


9 posted on 09/14/2006 10:41:47 AM PDT by aynrandfreak (The Left hates America)
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To: Dubya

Klingenscmitt has lied and obfuscated his way through this whole fiasco. He claims that he had prior permission to do what he did but that is not true. His Command Chaplain told him it would be ok to wear his uniform and pray in public only if he was attending a 'bona fide' worship service. I think every reasonable person knows what a 'bona fide' worship service is and standing at a microphone in front of the White House and saying a prayer...for the sole purpose of illiciting the kind of response that he received...is not a worship service. This clown has gone on the radio and denounced the President, he'd denounced his Command Chaplain and his Commanding Officer. Everyone is wrong except him. He's a psycho publicity hound who should be drummed out of the Navy.


10 posted on 09/14/2006 10:44:31 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Dubya; xzins; blue-duncan
This Christian sailor has what it takes.

He's a idiot. He has no right to make a political speech while wearing the uniform of the United States Navy. He was publicly protesting the rule that Chaplains are not allowed to give "denominational" prayers in public in uniform and he wore his uniform while protesting that rule in public and then deliberatly broke that rule when he offered a public prayer in the name of Jesus Christ.

That rule may be stupid, but nevertheless it is on the books and as a paid Chaplain in the Navy, he is subject to it. He has no right to wear a uniform while publicly protesting that rule. And pursuant to that rule he cannot offer a public prayer in Jesus' name while wearing his uniform, which he did.

This guy may ultimately lose his pension over this issue. If he has a family, then he is being a poor steward of that which God has entrusted him. Ultimately that uniform is going to be taken away from him. At that point he would be free to protest and pray in Jesus name all he wants. He might want to offer up a prayer for a new job, cause he's decided he's going to throw this one in the trash.

11 posted on 09/14/2006 10:51:02 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: pgkdan

Trashing your chain of command from the top down is a severely career-limiting move.


12 posted on 09/14/2006 10:53:13 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: ansel12

I think he should have known, as he was a Major in the AF before becoming a USN Chaplain.


13 posted on 09/14/2006 10:59:51 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: P-Marlowe
He's a idiot. He has no right to make a political speech while wearing the uniform of the United States Navy. He was publicly protesting the rule that Chaplains are not allowed to give "denominational" prayers in public in uniform and he wore his uniform while protesting that rule in public and then deliberatly broke that rule when he offered a public prayer in the name of Jesus Christ. That rule may be stupid, but nevertheless it is on the books and as a paid Chaplain in the Navy, he is subject to it. He has no right to wear a uniform while publicly protesting that rule. And pursuant to that rule he cannot offer a public prayer in Jesus' name while wearing his uniform, which he did. This guy may ultimately lose his pension over this issue. If he has a family, then he is being a poor steward of that which God has entrusted him. Ultimately that uniform is going to be taken away from him. At that point he would be free to protest and pray in Jesus name all he wants. He might want to offer up a prayer for a new job, cause he's decided he's going to throw this one in the trash.

Having been out of uniform a long time, I'm a bit fuzzy on chaplain rules...but I seem to remember a lot of chaplain's praying in Jesus's name while I was in the Navy (most saying the words "as a Christian minister I pray in Jesus's name").
But, if he were at a political event, I can see why the service got so ticked because UCMJ regs forbid ANY one in uniform at a political rally.

14 posted on 09/14/2006 11:13:07 AM PDT by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: GATOR NAVY
If it was a political event, praying in the name of Jesus had nothing to do with it. Military members are not allowed to appear at political events in uniform.

Agreed, but this guy obviously believes that the rules don't apply to him.

And there will undoubtedly be some here who agree, that he should be able to break the rules because of his religion. Were it a Muslim chaplain who spoke at a political rally in his uniform, they'd be screaming to have the traitor court-martialed....

15 posted on 09/14/2006 11:32:19 AM PDT by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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To: Dubya

This fellow has been persecuted for righteousness sake : whosoever stands by me publically will be saved, the rest are lost, so saith the Lord Jesus.


16 posted on 09/14/2006 12:01:06 PM PDT by timer
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To: timer
Case in point.
This fellow has been persecuted for righteousness sake

No, he isn't. He's being reprimanded because he broke the rules. Rules he doesn't agree with.

I have two questions for you, timer:

  1. Do you think members of the armed forces should be allowed to decide which regulations they will follow and which they won't?
  2. If this was a Muslim chaplain who had spoken at a political event in uniform, would you support him as well?

17 posted on 09/14/2006 12:36:31 PM PDT by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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To: P-Marlowe; Dubya; blue-duncan; LiteKeeper; Mr Rogers
No member of the military is EVER permitted to be part of a political event while in uniform. Ever. He can't advocate X, Y, or Z in uniform if it's in any way political. He can't wear his uniform for John Kerry, for George Bush, for drilling in Anwar, for building an illegal immigrant fence, against gay marriage, OR for a rally by civilians to change military policy.

We can't participate in political events in uniform because it gives the impression that the military is taking sides in civil, political affairs, and the military is required to be subservient to the civilian in our system.

This includes Klingenschmitt. And to make sure he understood this, a general officer (admiral) in the Navy DID THE GUY A FAVOR and gave him a direct order not to participate in that event in uniform.

Being a bit too full of himself, he disobeyed a direct order from a general officer. If he didn't see the handwriting on the wall, then he was a bit blind.

His issue about praying in Jesus' name was perfectly sound. Sadly, the numbnutz submarined a good issue by disobeying a widely known provision of military policy.

18 posted on 09/14/2006 1:49:11 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
Being a bit too full of himself

Could he be full of the Holy Spirit?

19 posted on 09/14/2006 1:54:25 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: meandog
Having been out of uniform a long time, I'm a bit fuzzy on chaplain rules...but I seem to remember a lot of chaplain's praying in Jesus's name while I was in the Navy (most saying the words "as a Christian minister I pray in Jesus's name").

I think they're to confine themselves to non-denominational prayers if it's not an actual worship service of their denomination.

When we had a change of command ceremony when I was in the Army (way back in Vietnam), the chaplain gave a nonsectarian prayer for the invocation, and it wasn't in Jesus' name.

20 posted on 09/14/2006 1:58:48 PM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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