Posted on 09/12/2006 1:56:42 AM PDT by goldstategop
The city of Cooper City, Fla., has given itself the power to seize residents' personal property in times of emergency.
Officials deemed this new law necessary because of what is expected to be a busy hurricane season.
But don't worry, they say. The law would never be enforced unless there were no other options – presumably meaning that the city could not persuade private citizens to permit the government to borrow, rent or buy their equipment.
Think of it as eminent domain for generators, power tools, trucks and anything else local czars determine they need.
Not surprisingly, this plan has met with some resistance.
''These people, with their mindset, should be arrested and put in jail for even attempting to do something like this,'' said Tim Wilder, a mobile mechanic who owns emergency tools and equipment.
While Commissioner Elliot Kleiman acknowledged that such a law is subject to abuse, he explained, ''but it's not going to happen here.''
Wouldn't that make you feel better?
You see, tyrants and dictators always believe they will be benevolent – that they would do the right thing in all circumstances. Few people run for office or seek power believing they cannot be trusted. They almost all trust themselves.
However, if we could trust people in power, we wouldn't need the safeguards we have in America to keep them in check, to limit their authority, to restrict their actions, to maintain the rule of law rather than the rule of men.
What's happening in Cooper City is not unusual. Unfortunately it is happening all over the country. It's happening in local governments. It's happening n state governments. And it's happening at the federal level.
That's why this is worth talking about – worth thinking about, worth praying about and worth fighting with all of our American resolve for independence and liberty and individual freedom.
It's easy for government to respect civil rights in the best of times. The challenge is for government to respect them in the worst of times. And few rights are as foundational as property rights.
That's why I agree with Mr. Wilder. That's the theory behind our rights. But what about the pragmatic implications of seizure laws like this? Are they really effective? Or are they, in fact, counterproductive to saving lives and property in times of emergency?
Think about this.
The best emergency scenario is that people themselves are prepared. Even the most well-equipped, efficient, resourceful and powerful government in the world can't take care of everyone's needs in an emergency.
Does a law like the one approved in Cooper City encourage people to prepare for emergencies? Or does it discourage them?
Most of the adamant objections to the law come from people who are prepared – people who make preparedness a way of life, people who even make a living investing in and operating emergency equipment.
Are these not the very people we need during times of emergency? Isn't it better to encourage people to do just what these folks are doing? Isn't it better for all concerned if we don't discourage people from making those investments and maintaining those businesses? Would any city or state want to drive these people out of their jurisdictions by raising fears of confiscation of their property and livelihoods?
Furthermore, why would other private citizens knowingly invest their own dollars and cents in preparing when city officials are giving them the impression that their neighbor's equipment will be seized by government to rescue them?
It's just one more example of a law that makes people more dependent on government – never a good idea in times of emergency.
You want to hear the real kicker? The Cooper City law, as with so many others like it, would allow officials to prohibit possession of firearms in times of emergency and close any public gathering place.
There go the First and Second Amendments as well as the Third, Fourth and Fifth in one fell swoop.
Is there any point in owning anything any more? Or, maybe a better question would be: Does anyone, besides government, really own anything any more?
Yep.
So we're back to arguing if the polls determine whether a thing is good? I suppose if I were in Jonestown before the mass suicide most of the people would have agreed that it was a good idea. But it really wasn't.
What I have to stand on is a long history of government being granted more and more power while the same government becomes more incompetent and corrupt.
Faced with the fact that, in Katrina, Walmart gave the keys to LEOs asking that they only leave a note for what they took, you have nothing to stand on.
No. That supports my claim that people will voluntarily help in an emergency without coercion by law. Walmart trusted the officials. But what would have happened if they hadn't trusted them? What if your community has a corrupt government? You should have the option of saying "no thank you" if you suspect that the cops are just out looting.
The law guarantees compensation.
Thanks for the ping!
So you're a gun-grabber too. What exactly are you doing on this forum?
As an idealogue, you endorse the criminals right to be armed.
Guarantees?
If the citizen can't prove that the cop took his property, then he will not be compensated.
If the citizen doesn't have the resources to fight the city in court, he will not be compensated.
If the citizen can't prove that the property was his because flood waters destroyed records, then he will not be compensated.
There are no guarantees.
Ever notice they all seem to come back with the same lame arguments about "criminals"? Don't they ever stop to think that in the eyes of some politicians, simple firearms ownership is enough of a "criminal offense" for them.
You were defending the NOLA gun grabs earlier. Guns were taken from non-criminals.
You say that there is a possibility of abuse and no one will disagree with that. But in real life there is very little abuse and what abuse that does exist is going to exist with or without the law.
Because it doesn't work perfectly, you maintain it should not be, even if works to prevent abuse.
In these catastrophic situations civil authority breaks down and self reliance becomes the order. Amongst normal people, this usually works for most everyone, as best can be expected.
There are, however, on occasion, individuals, in these situations, who think that because they are armed, they are entitled to intimidate. They are more dangerous than the criminals and should be disarmed or fragged.
You will have to point that out to me.
I think there is a huge amount of abuse of the taxpayer in our government. I used to work for a federal government agency and the waste and incompetence was incredible. People who were outright thieving but not punished, only transferred to another agency. It is so ubiquitous that it is no longer a news story because it is not news.
And you have to consider what happens in other countries that give absolute authority to the government -- especially since so many of the people from these countries are now immigrating to the US and are becoming part of our government. Abuses were not rare in the Soviet Union. They were not rare in Nazi Germany and they are not rare today in Mexico and dozens of other countries around the world.
and what abuse that does exist is going to exist with or without the law.
But if they abuse people without the law to back them up they can be prosecuted. However, with the law, police and government officials have a license to steal. All they have to do is invoke the emergency power laws as they confiscate your inventory.
Are you talking about cops?
In that case, loan me your toilet paper for a week.
Government is a notoriously BAD arbiter in such things.
Sure, just as soon as you become a duly recognized, incorporated, elected, and funded city or county government in Florida.
Or, since that that is a fairly lengthy and expensive process, you can just buy your own toilet paper like every other private citizen.
Not to mention punishing those who prepare.
Thanks always, 'pod. I hope all is going well for you and yours. What Darby anniv. are we at?
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