Posted on 09/09/2006 8:39:07 PM PDT by curiosity
There is no reason to think that God would have any use for junk science like evolution. It's bad science and bad theology in the bargain.
How dare you tell me that this is not a Christian outlook! Who do you think you are?
I have studied the Bible all of my life and I am also a scientist. I am very comfortable in my beliefs and give glory to God for the things He has created.
You obviously are threatened by that. Get a life.
As such, it is a belief system, even a religion. Natural selection is one thing. A Closed Nature is a leap of faith.
You have some critically incorrect interpretations, which seem to stem from mis-understanding of terms as used in science.
Take a look at these definitions (from a google search, with additions from this thread). I think they might help you frame your arguments:
Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)
Theory: A scientifically testable general principle or body of principles offered to explain observed phenomena. In scientific usage, a theory is distinct from a hypothesis (or conjecture) that is proposed to explain previously observed phenomena. For a hypothesis to rise to the level of theory, it must predict the existence of new phenomena that are subsequently observed. A theory can be overturned if new phenomena are observed that directly contradict the theory. [Source]
When a scientific theory has a long history of being supported by verifiable evidence, it is appropriate to speak about "acceptance" of (not "belief" in) the theory; or we can say that we have "confidence" (not "faith") in the theory. It is the dependence on verifiable data and the capability of testing that distinguish scientific theories from matters of faith.
Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices."
Proof: Except for math and geometry, there is little that is actually proved. Even well-established scientific theories can't be conclusively proved, because--at least in principle--a counter-example might be discovered. Scientific theories are always accepted provisionally, and are regarded as reliable only because they are supported (not proved) by the verifiable facts they purport to explain and by the predictions which they successfully make. All scientific theories are subject to revision (or even rejection) if new data are discovered which necessitates this.
Law: a generalization that describes recurring facts or events in nature; "the laws of thermodynamics."
Model: a simplified representation designed to illuminate complex processes; a hypothetical description of a complex entity or process; a physical or mathematical representation of a process that can be used to predict some aspect of the process; a representation such that knowledge concerning the model offers insight about the entity modelled.
Speculation: a hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence). When a scientist speculates he is drawing on experience, patterns and somewhat unrelated things that are known or appear to be likely. This becomes a very informed guess.
Guess: an opinion or estimate based on incomplete evidence, or on little or no information.
Assumption: premise: a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"
Impression: a vague or subjective idea in which some confidence is placed; "his impression of her was favorable"; "what are your feelings about the crisis?"; "it strengthened my belief in his sincerity"; "I had a feeling that she was lying."
Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty.
Observation: any information collected with the senses.
Data: Individual measurements; facts, figures, pieces of information, statistics, either historical or derived by calculation, experimentation, surveys, etc.; evidence from which conclusions can be inferred.
Fact: when an observation is confirmed repeatedly and by many independent and competent observers, it can become a fact.
Truth: This is a word best avoided entirely in physics [and science] except when placed in quotes, or with careful qualification. Its colloquial use has so many shades of meaning from ‘it seems to be correct’ to the absolute truths claimed by religion, that it’s use causes nothing but misunderstanding. Someone once said "Science seeks proximate (approximate) truths." Others speak of provisional or tentative truths. Certainly science claims no final or absolute truths. Source.
Science: a method of learning about the world by applying the principles of the scientific method, which includes making empirical observations, proposing hypotheses to explain those observations, and testing those hypotheses in valid and reliable ways; also refers to the organized body of knowledge that results from scientific study.
Religion: Theistic: 1. the belief in a superhuman controlling power, esp. in a personal God or gods entitled to obedience and worship. 2. the expression of this in worship. 3. a particular system of faith and worship.
Religion: Non-Theistic: The word religion has many definitions, all of which can embrace sacred lore and wisdom and knowledge of God or gods, souls and spirits. Religion deals with the spirit in relation to itself, the universe and other life. Essentially, religion is belief in spiritual beings. As it relates to the world, religion is a system of beliefs and practices by means of which a group of people struggles with the ultimate problems of human life.
Belief: any cognitive content (perception) held as true; religious faith.
Faith: the belief in something for which there is no material evidence or empirical proof; acceptance of ideals, beliefs, etc., which are not necessarily demonstrable through experimentation or observation. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without evidence.
Some good definitions, as used in physics, can be found: Here.
[Last revised 8/27/06]
(SORRY FOR THE ALL-CAPS -- MY KEYBOARD IS MESSED UP.)
THEN ROMANS 5:12 IS FALSE. THEREFORE ALL OF SCRIPTURE IS A LIE. THEREFORE CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT DARWINISM AND CHRISTIANITY ARE COMPATIBLE.
THINK ABOUT IT.
Dave...regarding our discussion last evening, concerning Arnold Murray...the poster on FR, whose views seemed to mirror Arnold Murrays, is right here on this thread...its JustMyThoughts...she explained to me Murrays thoughts of the creation of the races of man on the 6th day, and the creation of Adam after the 7th day, of rest...as I explained to you on that other thread last nite, I do not defend Murray or his views, I just find him interesting...
But perhaps JustMyThoughts could explain to you all the better, about Murrays views on creation of the races of men, creation of Noah, and about the various races going into the ark with Noah...
Its a good coincidence that you both showed up on this same thread, because perhaps JustMyThoughts could better explain to you, using the Scriptures, how Murray comes to his conclusions...as I said, I dont necessarily adhere to Murrays beliefs...but I do find him to be very interesting...
JustMyThoughts...hope you did not mind my pinging you, but figured you could do a better job of explaining Murrays positions than I can...thanks...
Magnanimous of him.
SEE MY POST #24. EVOLUTION IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE SCRIPTURES.
(AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE ALL-CAPS.)
I take your counsel for lack of knowledge to be what it is.
It is because of the discoveries of 'science' DNA in particular that removed from me the cloud of teaching from most Christian churches that all humanity came from only two flesh beings.
Funny thing about it is the Bible does not say all people came from only two flesh beings, and further what do the church goers of the modern day do, try and dress up a theory called evolution as answer to what their claim is.
Oh and the Heavenly Father gives you that freedom to lean atheist.
That is a very contained and sensible statement.
he's wrong.
Regrettably, they are dead.
I don't advocate shooting them, but deportation for Sedition due to what the Koran says VERY openly about the worldwide institution of Sharia Law, and the means "good" muslims are to employ to further that goal.
I am sorry I have had maybe two interactions with you. Now if you would like to get your Bible out we can go through Genesis and I will type word for word what it actually says.
I can read what is Written and I do know where to find what is Written.
DID DEATH ENTER THE WORLD THROUGH SIN, OR WAS IT ALWAYS PART OF GOD'S PLAN? SCRIPTURE SAYS THE FORMER; DARWIN SAYS THE LATTER. IF DEATH DID NOT COME INTO EXISTENCE BECAUSE OF SIN, THEN JESUS CAME FOR NO REASON.
DARWINIANISM IS AN ATTACK AGAINST THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS. SOUNDS DRASTIC, BUT IT REALLY IS.
CHOOSE: JESUS, OR DARWIN.
Science is the observation and understanding of the rules and principles operating in (dare I say it again) God's universe.
Yes, it is.
There is a lot of bloviating on this subject.
People who do not use science to see and comprehend the glories of God's creations are trapped in their tiny little minds.
I prefer to study and marvel at the complexity and simplicity of what God has provided us with. Evolution is but a small part of it. Study the processes of DNA and one will aprreciate the genius of God's solution to the problem of how to move life forward in an orderly manner.
"Most of us think we know more than we really do."
You are so right. That includes presumptions about the nature of the universe and the nature of God.
It is difficult to gain knowledge when one thinks he already has everything figured out.
Oh please. Are you really that dense?
Death of the body does not equal death of the spirit or the soul.
Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
I don't see how Christianity and Evolution can co-exist in anyone's mind. Evolution requires millions of years of death,pain, and disease. Christianity requires a creation that was "good" in the beginning. Death,decay, and disease did not happen until the first man and woman were cursed.
The Bible says we have the promise that the creation will be “restored” to its original “very good” state, and that there will be no more curse.
How does a theistic evolutionist reconcile the difference?
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