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This article is not defeatist but instead a rallying call. It is a clear statement of our situation, a clear statement of our problem, and therefore the first step to finding the solution.

If this article has been previously posted please pardon me.

1 posted on 09/09/2006 1:32:59 PM PDT by Iris7
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To: Iris7
This author, like so many alarmists, underestimates the resolve of the West, if not in its political institutions, at least in the will of the people themselves. Islam survives because we tolerate it. Pushed too far, our tolerance will dissolve. And then it is Islam that is doomed. Its backward, primitive, hate-filled legions are no match for a Western technological army committed to total victory.

All we're lacking now is the commitment, not the tools. One more 9/11 and the incentive will be there too. And then we can take out the trash for good.

53 posted on 09/09/2006 3:22:03 PM PDT by IronJack (ALL)
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To: Iris7

Bookmark...


68 posted on 09/09/2006 4:44:37 PM PDT by top 2 toe red (To the enemy in Iraq..."Don't bet on American politics forcing my hand!" President Bush)
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To: Iris7
The thing that worries me most is population increase and immigration. I don't know what impact it will have when there are 4 times more arabs in Isreal. The arab population is growing faster that the jews.

As for immigration, look for more muslims in Europe and I believe in the long run it will impact forgien policy and make them reluctant to fight.

73 posted on 09/09/2006 5:01:46 PM PDT by osideplanner
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To: Iris7
As long as their kids watch MTV arabia we will be fine in the long run.

Nothing can stand up to the power of consumerism and the entertainment industry. Their kids will be spoiled and directionless (like ours).

74 posted on 09/09/2006 5:06:34 PM PDT by Dinsdale
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To: Iris7

"...many on the Left have only the fag-end of anti-colonial positions on which to take their stand."

**snicker**


80 posted on 09/09/2006 5:59:41 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (Stop the ACLU - Support the Public Expression of Religion Act 2005 - Call your congressmen.)
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To: Iris7
Here's why we WILL eventually win.

Our civilization is an indirect line descendent from Rome. When we get the will (and one nuclear obliteration of a city will get it), a LOT of muslims are going to die.

85 posted on 09/09/2006 6:41:06 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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One reason that the dems and liberals (and for that matter, "moderate" republicans as well) don't get "it" when it comes to islamofascists, is that they believe that words don't really have any intrinsic meaning. That words mean what they want them to mean. This is one of the reasons that President Bush confounds them. Because he (usually) means what he says, and acts on it. Leftists seem to think "well, they're just saying that..." when it comes to the islamofascists. They also can't believe that "those people" actually believe what they're saying, and will follow through on their words with actions.

They believe that harsh words can be swepts aside by conciliatory words. They're wrong, of course. I'm reminded of a scene (paraphrased, it's been a long time since I saw the movie) from "Independence Day," where the president asks the alien "What you you want from us?" and the alien replies "Die." There's really not much reasoning you can do when those you don't even recognize as your enemy refuse to negotiate, unless it's to buy them some time to assess your strengths and weaknesses.

I've seen it described as feeding your neighbors to the crocodiles, hoping you'll be the last to be eaten.

Mark

88 posted on 09/09/2006 7:29:57 PM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Iris7
This is a troubling, but highly relevant, essay.

I don't post a lot, but I have posted similar warnings (though far less eloquently written) here in related threads.

The West is in great danger. And as things stand today, I seriously doubt that it can win this struggle. We can hold out for decades, perhaps a century or even longer. But eventually, the "growing pressure" of Islam and its dictates will overwhelm and sweep into the moral and spritual vacuum that envelops The West.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. But the forces of Islam operate on an entirely different [and more base] level than do the forces of The West. Islam is prepared to to do things to win that we [at least currently] refuse to. While we wring our hands and agonize our consciences about using too much force against our enemy, it steels itself and prepares for its next attack.

We have technological weapons that, at this time, are millions of times more powerful than they posses. However, such weapons will never be used, precisely because they _are_ so powerful. Conversely, the other side may develop weapons on a far cruder level, but sufficiently powerful to obliterate cities, and they will have no qualms about using such weapons once they are in hand. For this reason, Iran armed with a dozen Hiroshima-sized nuclear bombs becomes more threatening than the thousands of H-bombs we have, again, becuase they will _use_ the weapons they have, and we will not.

Ultimately, however, the struggle will not be won by bombs, but by soldiers on the ground. And they have millions upon millions more young males who will be willing to put on boots and fight us, than we have to match them. This is the most vexing problem that Western Europe confronts in its looming battle with Islam. Faced with collapsing Euro-Christian/white populations, and burgeoning Islamic populations on their own soil, they will [in but a few generations] be opposed by a virtual army of Islamic males with no way to quell them. Witness the French suburban riots of only a few months' back. Faced with a unified Islamic army that recognizes no borders in Europe (and only Islam), how will the pitiful armies of European nations respond?

Hard times ahead, indeed. Again, I wish I could be more optimistic, but The West seems to have lost its will to win, or even the sense of why it _should_ win.

I sense that it will take "a new Churchill" to awaken The West and re-awaken its will to defend itself. Where this individual will come from, and when, is too early to tell. He may not even be born yet. But The West awaits him....

- John

101 posted on 09/09/2006 8:41:01 PM PDT by Fishrrman
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To: Iris7

Must Read Later.


103 posted on 09/09/2006 8:44:59 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Iris7

There doesn't need to be ten different points. Only one: The West has become complacent and pussified due to a half-century of wealth, relative peace, and Socialism. It has been threatened (Cold War) but really hasn't been blood-and-guts challenged. That time of blood-and-guts challenge is approaching, or "Imminent", you might say. It is good vs. evil. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Testing, one...two...three....


108 posted on 09/09/2006 9:15:45 PM PDT by FlyVet
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To: Iris7

I found the article itself rambling and poorly written, although its underlying sentiment is largely on target. The problem is much simpler and doesn't require ten steps to explain. The largest and most serious problem we have in winning the war is the refusal of our leaders to even acknowledge who and what the enemy is. Show me the last war won by someone who was too timid to even identify the enemy.

MM


109 posted on 09/09/2006 9:15:49 PM PDT by MississippiMan (Behold now behemoth...he moves his tail like a cedar. Job 40:17)
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To: Iris7

According to his bio, he is British but lives in Italy, and in past has advised David Willetts, the shadow works and pensions secretary, on future Tory strategy. He claimed publishers would not publish his book because it didn't jibe with their views of Islam.

For some reason, Mr. Selbourne seems to believe that the Unites States is solely responsible for identifying and solving the Islamist problem, yet he clearly understands it is a global issue that affects many.


124 posted on 09/09/2006 11:07:16 PM PDT by unsycophant
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To: Iris7
A good article on Islime can be found at:

yourarmstoisrael.org
select "sermon notes"
pull up "The Final End Time Beast"
Print and save for future reference.
131 posted on 09/10/2006 12:58:13 AM PDT by Lewite (Praise YAHWEH and Proclaim His Wonderful Name! Islam, the end time Beast-the harlot of Babylon.)
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To: Iris7

Outstanding. Thanks for posting.


132 posted on 09/10/2006 5:41:48 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Iris7; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; arete; ..
The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West’s, and especially America’s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition — or “freedom ’n’ liberty” — are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like them or not. Yet in the “battle for hearts and minds” the US First Cavalry Division saw fit to set up “Operation Adam Smith” in Iraq to teach marketing skills, among other things, to local entrepreneurs. There can be no victory here. Or, as Sheikh Mohammed al-Tabatabi told thousands of worshippers in Baghdad in May 2003: “The West calls for freedom and liberty. Islam rejects such liberty. True liberty is obedience to Allah.”

Western civilization became the leader not because of "gay pride parades" but thanks to the Christian religion. And Muslims do not need to learn marketing, they are quite good at that already.

135 posted on 09/10/2006 6:37:54 AM PDT by A. Pole (George Orwell: "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.")
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To: Iris7; Neil E. Wright

PING


140 posted on 09/10/2006 9:35:29 AM PDT by dcwusmc (The government is supposed to fit the Constitution, NOT the Constitution fit the government!)
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To: Iris7
It must suck to be a highly intelligent liberal. They hate Islamic fascism and recognize the threat but realize that only their arch enemy the Christians can defeat the threat.

(I see little minds spinning..."How can we defeat Islamic fascists without supporting Chritianitly? Hmmmmmm....hmmmmmm.")

It must be very perplexing indeed and a little depressing. This gives rise to defeatism like you see in this article.

I hope the libs sitting on the fence in this battle live long enough to figure out which side they must choose and support for their own survivals sake. LOL.

142 posted on 09/10/2006 10:07:43 AM PDT by Earthdweller (All reality is based on faith in something.)
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To: Iris7
The first is the extent of political division in the non-Muslim world about what is afoot.

If this is the first reason why we aren't going to win, then I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest.

The Muslim world is as divided.

Most of our terrorist catches and kills have been with the help of Muslims.

147 posted on 09/10/2006 10:42:01 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Iris7
The author forgot that they have the bargaining chip of OIL and we have the NUKE one, which they want. If anything, Islam is an alarm clock for western civ to wake itself up from its cold war slumbers with the Commies and face a new modern theocratic threat. The west is very critical and down with itself (all the injustices of Capitalism that we endlessly hear from cultural Marxists) but now is the time to take stock of it's wonderful achievements and celebrate its many high points. Especially, freedom. And what better way of doing that than ridding the world of the scourge of terrorism! Amen.
149 posted on 09/10/2006 8:09:52 PM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: nutmeg

bookmark


162 posted on 09/10/2006 9:57:49 PM PDT by nutmeg (National security trumps everything else.)
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