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Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? Here are ten reasons why not
Times Online ^ | September 09, 2006 | David Selbourne

Posted on 09/09/2006 1:32:58 PM PDT by Iris7

LET US SUPPOSE, for the sake of argument, that the war declared by al-Qaeda and other Islamists is under way. Let us further suppose that thousands of “terrorist” attacks carried out in Islam’s name during the past decades form part of this war; and that conflicts that have spread to 50 countries and more, taking the lives of millions — including in inter-Muslim blood-shedding — are the outcome of what Osama bin Laden has called “conducting jihad for the sake of Allah”.

If such war is under way, there are ten good reasons why, as things stand, Islam will not be defeated in it.

1) The first is the extent of political division in the non-Muslim world about what is afoot. Some reject outright that there is a war at all; others agree with the assertion by the US President that “the war we fight is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century”. Divided counsels have also dictated everything from “dialogue” to the use of nuclear weapons, and from reliance on “public diplomacy” to “taking out Islamic sites”, Mecca included. Adding to this incoherence has been the gulf between those bristling to take the fight to the “terrorist” and those who would impede such a fight, whether from domestic civil libertarian concerns or from rivalrous geopolitical calculation.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: america; churchill; clashofcivilizations; europe; fifthanniversary; france; germany; gwot; hitler; islam; islamist; meinkampf; selbourne; terror; terrorism; terrorist; thewest; uk; us; usa; waronislam; waronterror; wot
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To: osideplanner

"yes, EVEN MORE reluctant."

I think you're right. In the battle for Western Civilization, we can just about right off its cradle. Pity.


81 posted on 09/09/2006 6:01:57 PM PDT by Peisistratus (Islam delende est)
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To: osideplanner

Unfortunately there aren't many that will. I think Rudy is the only one strong enough to do it but with his liberal social policies, it will be difficult for him to win the primary.

Our next President needs to be a leader and not a politician.


82 posted on 09/09/2006 6:05:29 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Mediacrat - A leftwing editorialist who pretends to be an objective journalist.)
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To: Peisistratus

right = write


83 posted on 09/09/2006 6:05:37 PM PDT by Peisistratus (Islam delende est)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

"Our next President needs to be a leader and not a politician."

Our next President needs to be a *statesman* on the order of Winston Churchill. That's not Rudy.


84 posted on 09/09/2006 6:06:41 PM PDT by Peisistratus (Islam delende est)
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To: Iris7
Here's why we WILL eventually win.

Our civilization is an indirect line descendent from Rome. When we get the will (and one nuclear obliteration of a city will get it), a LOT of muslims are going to die.

85 posted on 09/09/2006 6:41:06 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Property tax is feudalism. Income taxes are armed robbery of the minority by the majority.)
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To: Centurion2000

"Our civilization is an indirect line descendent from Rome. When we get the will (and one nuclear obliteration of a city will get it), a LOT of muslims are going to die."

The sad thing is that if we had the will in our "leadership", we wouldn't have to and far fewer of us and the enemy would die.


86 posted on 09/09/2006 6:55:26 PM PDT by Peisistratus (Islam delende est)
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To: grey_whiskers
I understand why Dubya is so utterly insistent on open borders with Mexico.

I've always thought that Catholic Latin America is the ultimate bulwark against an Islamic threat. If you want to know what businesses (the ultimate pragmatists - forget PC) think of gender & race, one merely has to look at TV programming & commercials.

Spanish language TV is replete with novellas, violent dramas such as "Ojo por Ojo" (Eye for an Eye) where shoot-em ups focus closely on impact shots, and variety shows/commercials featuring beautiful bikini girls.

For every limp wristed leftist, we've imported Hispanics who come from countries where atheletes are gunned down for making scoring errors. They ain't gonna take kindly to suggestions that they can't drink cold beer & leer at chicks.

As an aside, there's an old maxim of what happens if one's sister gets raped: Muzzies kill the victim; Scandanavians kill themselves; Latins kill the rapist. It's a revenge & retribution society focused on the culprit, not the victim.

87 posted on 09/09/2006 7:14:38 PM PDT by Chuck Dent
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One reason that the dems and liberals (and for that matter, "moderate" republicans as well) don't get "it" when it comes to islamofascists, is that they believe that words don't really have any intrinsic meaning. That words mean what they want them to mean. This is one of the reasons that President Bush confounds them. Because he (usually) means what he says, and acts on it. Leftists seem to think "well, they're just saying that..." when it comes to the islamofascists. They also can't believe that "those people" actually believe what they're saying, and will follow through on their words with actions.

They believe that harsh words can be swepts aside by conciliatory words. They're wrong, of course. I'm reminded of a scene (paraphrased, it's been a long time since I saw the movie) from "Independence Day," where the president asks the alien "What you you want from us?" and the alien replies "Die." There's really not much reasoning you can do when those you don't even recognize as your enemy refuse to negotiate, unless it's to buy them some time to assess your strengths and weaknesses.

I've seen it described as feeding your neighbors to the crocodiles, hoping you'll be the last to be eaten.

Mark

88 posted on 09/09/2006 7:29:57 PM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: Chuck Dent

WTF are you talking about Chuck?

Bikini clad girls exacerbating the hormones of Latinos as they dip taquitos in salsa is going to defeat the Islamo-Fascists?

With all due respect, all I sense is gas, a hangover, and blue balls.

I would not view the above as a war strategy.

Fun, yes, but you failed to include goats, camels, beheadings, whipeing with your left hand and asundry aspects of the Islamic faith which relegates them to a continuing timelock somewhere in the sixth century.


89 posted on 09/09/2006 7:41:13 PM PDT by Hilltop
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To: Graymatter
1.5 billion people is really not the issue. China's population is nearly as large.

There are simple ways to deal with the Islamists. The hard thing to do is deal with our internal enemies. If our internal enemies succeed then the Islamist problem will get worse. Eventually the internal enemy will be dealt with (most are more fools than knaves) but it will be too late for the simple ways to work. All that will be left are the hard ways. By hard I mean rough wars with much death.
90 posted on 09/09/2006 7:43:45 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: upchuck

Our most difficult problem is not the external enemy.


91 posted on 09/09/2006 7:44:46 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: Iris7
7) The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West’s, and especially America’s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition — or “freedom ’n’ liberty” — are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like them or not.

This writer does not know America.

Our values are not ONLY market values; they are the values of our Judeo-Christian beliefs, as much a contribution to American exceptionalism as they were in Toqueville's day.

That is what will give us the belief and fortitude to defeat Islam.

92 posted on 09/09/2006 7:45:16 PM PDT by happygrl
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To: MNJohnnie
I am aware of the situation on the ground in the Middle East. Those enemies are only dangerous when combined with our domestic enemy. There is a serious effort under way here in this country to turn our victory into our defeat.

The situation in Iraq, the Sunni - Shia business, etc., is developing very nicely. A very nice job is and has been done by the United States Armed Forces. I wish I could say the same thing about the situation here in the United States.
93 posted on 09/09/2006 7:49:54 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: cpdiii

I truly wish I could agree with you.

Clinton would have reacted, because, like his cigar, all that surrounded him would have been smoldering ash.

When you interrupt a President getting a blowjob in the house of the people, said (lowercase) president tends to get perturbed.


94 posted on 09/09/2006 7:50:07 PM PDT by Hilltop
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To: Iris7
What the Islamists don't seem to realize is that there is no way for them to win this war. If the present day 2nd & 3rd largest economies, respectively, were completely obliterated in WWII, what chance do people with a collective IQ around 80 have?

However, while Islamists can be easily defeated, it is their enablers and domestic enemies that will be a little harder. They're smart, control the media, and have adequate financial reserves.

The next president has to open up the final front of the war in order to ensure complete victory for the West.

95 posted on 09/09/2006 8:07:44 PM PDT by Chuck Dent
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To: steve-b
as Sheikh Mohammed al-Tabatabi told thousands of worshippers in Baghdad in May 2003: “The West calls for freedom and liberty. Islam rejects such liberty. True liberty is obedience to Allah."

What the article is saying is that the Moslems know that they have not been able to compete with Asia or the West and that Adam Smith just makes them feel inferior. Now they have control of all that oil but also know that the oil will not be worth much within a few decades because it will either be gone or technologically obsolete. Either they must conquer now or forever be unwashed stinking bums in the desert while we go to the stars. A simple and clear choice, eh?

96 posted on 09/09/2006 8:08:10 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: varon

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

Long ago, now, but not forgotten.


97 posted on 09/09/2006 8:16:00 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: rodguy911
Thank you. Ignorance is not strength and freedom is not slavery. Um, Orwell, that, 1984.
98 posted on 09/09/2006 8:19:32 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: steve-b

Good luck to you.


99 posted on 09/09/2006 8:20:30 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: StAnDeliver
One must examine Turkish history to understand how the Mustafa Kemal situation came about. You have to get well back into the era of Byzantine Armenia. The Turks come on the scene as part of the Mongol Horde.

And, yes, the "Turkish solution" can be done. The problem is not with external enemies here. They are not especially difficult. The problem is with our internal enemies who would turn our current victory into defeat and insure a nuclear war in the future. Such a war would be a waste when we can fix this nicely now.
100 posted on 09/09/2006 8:30:00 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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