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Katherine Harris says failure to elect Christians will `legislate sin'
KRT Wire ^ | 8/25/2006 | Jim Stratton

Posted on 08/25/2006 7:47:48 PM PDT by Alex Murphy

ORLANDO, Fla. _Rep. Katherine Harris said this week that God did not intend for the United States to be a "nation of secular laws" and that a failure to elect Christians to political office will allow lawmaking bodies to "legislate sin."

The remarks, published in the weekly journal of the Florida Baptist State Convention, unleashed a torrent of criticism from political and religious officials.

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., said she was "disgusted" by the comments "and deeply disappointed in Rep. Harris personally."

Harris, Wasserman Schultz said, "clearly shows that she does not deserve to be a Representative . . ."

State Rep. Irv Slosberg, D-Boca Raton, demanded an apology, saying the statements were "outrageous, even by her standards.

"What is going through this woman's mind?" said Slosberg. "We do not live in a theocracy."

The criticism was not limited to Democrats.

Ruby Brooks, a veteran Tampa Bay Republican activist, said Harris' remarks "were offensive to me as a Christian and a Republican."

"To me, it's the height of hubris," said Brooks, a former Largo Republican Club president and former member of the Pinellas County Republican Executive Committee.

And Jillian Hasner, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, said: "I don't think it's representative of the Republican Party at all. Our party is much bigger and better than Katherine Harris is trying to make it."

The fallout follows an interview published in the Florida Baptist Witness, the weekly journal of the Florida Baptist State Convention. Witness editors interviewed candidates for office asking them to describe their faith and positions on certain issues.

Harris said her religious beliefs "animate" everything she does, including her votes in Congress.

She then warned voters that if they do not send Christians to office, they risk creating a government that is doomed to fail.

"If you are not electing Christians, tried and true, under public scrutiny and pressure, if you're not electing Christians, then in essence you are going to legislate sin," she told interviewers, citing abortion and gay marriage as two examples of that sin.

"Whenever we legislate sin," she said, "and we say abortion is permissible and we say gay unions are permissible, then average citizens who are not Christians, because they don't know better, we are leading them astray and it's wrong . . ."

Harris also said the separation of church and state is a "lie we have been told" to keep religious people out of politics.

In reality, she said, "we have to have the faithful in government" because that is God's will. Separating religion and politics is "so wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers," she said.

"And if we are the ones not actively involved in electing those godly men and women," then "we're going to have a nation of secular laws. That's not what our founding fathers intended and that's (sic) certainly isn't what God intended."

Harris campaign spokesman Jennifer Marks would not say what alternative to "a nation of secular laws" Harris would support. She would not answer questions about the Harris interview and, instead, released a two-sentence statement.

"Congresswoman Harris encourages Americans from all walks of life and faith to participate in our government," it stated. "She continues to be an unwavering advocate of religious rights and freedoms."

The notion that non-Christians "don't know better," or are less suited to govern disturbed Rabbi Rick Sherwin, president of the Greater Orlando Board of Rabbis.

"Anybody who claims to have a monopoly on God," he said, "doesn't understand the strength of America."

Sherwin and others also said Harris appeared to be voicing support for a religious state when she said God and the founding fathers did not intend the United States to be a "nation of secular laws."

The alternative, they said, would be a nation of religious laws.

"She's talking about a theocracy," said Sherwin. "And that's exactly opposite of what this country is based on." A clause in the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a state religion.

Ahmed Bedier, the Central Florida Director of the Council on American Islamic Relations, said he was "appalled that a person who's been in politics this long would hold such extreme views."

Bedier said most Christians would find such comments "shameful."

Harris has always professed a deep Christian faith and long been popular with Christian conservative voters.

In the Senate primary race, she has heavily courted that voting bloc, counting on them to put her into the general election against Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson.

But publicly, she rarely expresses such a fervent evangelical perspective.

University of Virginia political analyst Larry Sabato said the comments will appeal to Christian fundamentalists who typically turn out for Republican primaries.

But he said the strong evangelical tone could alienate non-Christians and more moderate Republicans who had been thinking of supporting Harris.

"It's insane," he said. "But it's not out of character for Katherine Harris."

Harris, a Republican from Longboat Key, is running against Orlando attorney Will McBride, retired Adm. LeRoy Collins and developer Peter Monroe in the GOP Senate primary.

McBride and Collins also did interviews with Florida Baptist Witness. Both said faith is an important part of their lives, but Harris' responses most directly tie her role as a policy maker to her religious beliefs.

Ruby Brooks, the Tampa area GOP activist, said such religious "arrogance" only damages the party.

"This notion that you've been chosen or anointed, it's offensive," said Brooks. "We hurt our cause with that more than we help it."


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: debbie; godless; implodingcampaign; jimstratton; katherineharris; larrysabato; latestharrisgaffe; slosberg; theocracy; wassermanschultz; wingnut
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To: bmwcyle; thoughtomator
She right stupid. Too bad your are going who will lead us down the wrong path. Why don't you join the Godless DEMS?

Got to be a parody of the typical Harris supporter rant, right?

Nobody would actually lob the insult "stupid" as part of a post with that many grammatical errors, would they?

301 posted on 08/26/2006 9:14:24 AM PDT by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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Comment #302 Removed by Moderator

To: highball

I was wondering the exact same thing LOL


303 posted on 08/26/2006 9:17:59 AM PDT by MikefromOhio (aka MikeinIraq - Go Bucks!!!)
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To: roxybear
And if you want a horse's rear--vote for Harris.

I was thinking that Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Irv Slosberg fit that description. Vote Rat if ya want.

304 posted on 08/26/2006 9:22:41 AM PDT by Mojave
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To: roxybear

Given her own remarks, it's gotta be "gentile".


305 posted on 08/26/2006 9:28:48 AM PDT by linda_22003
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To: roxybear

gentle, kind, etc, and yes guys I know SPECTER isnt Christian He's Jewish, I've got it ALREADY!

And yes RINOness should be the test, but my point is that many Committed Christians are not RINOs and don't act like them by definition!!


306 posted on 08/26/2006 9:39:11 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com)
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To: JSDude1

Ask the people who work with Harris if she's "gentle and kind."

Were she, I doubt she'd have the mass exodus from her campaign. Those that know her seem to have a hard time staying around.


307 posted on 08/26/2006 9:44:28 AM PDT by highball (Proud to announce the birth of little Highball, Junior - Feb. 7, 2006!)
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To: Mojave
Code? Common law practice.

This makes no sense. Are you still sticking to your absurd position that the common law came from the states?
308 posted on 08/26/2006 10:11:26 AM PDT by jf55510
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To: EternalVigilance; sinkspur; potlatch; NYer; Extremely Extreme Extremist; gregwest; NautiNurse; ...

Katherine Harris speaks her mind and heart regarding her Christian Faith. She follows in the tradition and spirit of our Founders....And....her right to do so is protected by the First Amendment of our Constitution.




From: EternalVigilance.......

Let's take a moment to see how important the faith and devotion to God and Jesus Christ was to our Founding Fathers. The Framers of our Constitution made it quite clear as to whom they were indebted and to whom this country's freedom, future and devotion was attributed:

A page of history is worth a volume of logic. History shows the intent and purpose of our Founding Fathers. Woodrow Wilson, our 28th President elected for two terms, Governor of New Jersey and president of Princeton University, was quoted as saying "A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday, doesn't know what it is today or what it is trying to do- we're trying to do a futile thing if we don't know where we've come from or what we're about." Contemporary logic is wrong whenever it contradicts the clear explanations of those men who wrote the Constitution. 97% of the Founding Fathers were practicing Christians and exercised their faith in public office, at work, at home, and had it taught to their children in their schools. 187 of the first 200 colleges in America were Christian, Bible teaching institutions (including Yale, Princeton, and Harvard). Entrance in Harvard required strong knowledge of the Bible. Noah Webster wrote the dictionary with Bible verses explained so children could understand the words of God and know the truth of Jesus Christ. Webster even wrote a translation of the Bible for the American speaking people. You could hardly find a school in America that wasn't Christian based with the Bible as its main textbook until the 1830's. …The men who wrote the Declaration of Independence declared within it their undying faith towards God for all generations to see and follow.

George Washington, 1st President of the United States, Commander in Chief of the US during the Revolutionary War, chairman of the Constitutional Convention "You do well to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all the religion of Jesus Christ." From "Address to the Delaware Indian Chiefs" , May 12, 1779 , America's God and Country, William Federer, p.644

Washington: "Let me live according to those holy rules which Thou hast this day prescribed in Thy Holy Word…direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ, the way, the truth, and the life. Bless, O Lord, all the people of this land." Cited in W. Herbert Burk, ed., "Washington's Papers", pp.87-95.

Washington: "We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself ordained." First Inaugural Address, April 30, 1789.

Washington: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity…let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason, and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." …"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."..Washington's Farewell Address, Sept. 17, 1796

Washington: "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."

Washington: "General Thanksgiving" speech Oct. 14, 1789…"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a Day Of Public Thanksgiving And Prayer, to be observed By acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God…"

Washington: "The hand of Providence has been so conspicuous in all this (the course of the war) that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more wicked that has not gratitude to acknowledge his obligations; but it will be time enough for me to turn preacher when my present appointment ceases." Letter to Thomas Nelson in Virginia, Jared Sparks, ed. The Writings of George Washington, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.643

Samuel Adams, member of the Continental Congress and signer of the Declaration: " Let…statesmen and patriots unite in their endeavors to renovate the age by…educating their little boys and girls..and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system." letter to his cousin John Adams, Oct. 4, 1790, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.23

Samuel Adams: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.23

Samuel Adams: "It is therefore recommended to set apart Thursday the 18th day of December next, for solemn thanksgiving and praise, that with one heart and one voice, the good people may express the grateful feelings of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their divine benefactor…" Nov. 1, 1877 first official Thanksgiving Proclamation.

Patrick Henry, Delegate to the 2nd Continental Congress, Congressman and five-time governor to Virginia; turned down nominations as Secretary of State and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court "Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast.",1796 letter to his daughter ,S. G. Arnold, The Life of Patrick Henry, 1854, p.250

Patrick Henry: "This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed."… Henry's Last Will and Testament from Patrick Henry Memorial Foundation, Red Hill, Brookneal, VA

Patrick Henry: "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!- I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" speech at St. John's Church 1775, Christianity and the Constitution, John Eidsmoe, p.303

John Adams, member of the Continental Congress, 2nd President of the United States, Vice President To the United States, Commissioner to France, US Ambassador to England: On March 6, 1789, President Adams called for a national day of fasting and prayer so that the nation might "call to mind the numerous offenses against the most high God, confess them before Him with the sincerest penitence, implore his pardoning mercy, through the Great Mediator and Redeemer, for our past transgression, and that through the grace of His Holy Spirit, we may be disposed and enabled to yield a more suitable obedience.."

John Adams, member of the Continental Congress, 2nd President of the United States, Vice President To the United States, Commissioner to France, US Ambassador to England: "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion…Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." Oct. 11, 1798, address to the officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Mass., America's God and Country, William Federer, p.10

John Adams letter to Benjamin Rush: "The Christian religion...is the brightness of the glory and the express portrait of the character of the eternal, self-existent, independent, benevolent, all powerful and all merciful creator, preserver, and Father of the universe, the first good, first perfect, and first fair. It will last as long as the world. Neither savage nor civilized man, without a revelation, could ever have discovered or invented it. Ask me not, then, whether I am a Catholic or Protestant, Calvinist or Arminian. As far as they are Christians, I wish to be a fellow disciple with them all." Adam's Dairy, July 26, 1796, Christianity and the Constitution, John Eidsmoe, p. 285

Benjamin Franklin in a letter to the President of the first Constitutional Congress, 1789: " I have lived a long time, Sir, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that " except the Lord build the House they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and hat one or more Clergy of the city be requested to officiate in that service." speech to Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787 , America's God and Country, William Federer, pp.247-248

As it turned out, after the convention, and nine days after the first Constitutional Congress convened with a quorum (April 9, 1789), the Congress implemented Franklin's recommendation. Two chaplains of different denominations were appointed, one of the House and one to the Senate, with a salary of $500 apiece. This practice continues today, posing no threat to the first Amendment. How could it? The men who authorized the chaplains wrote the Amendment.

Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress, signer of the Declaration, US Minister to England and France, oldest Founding Father: "History will also afford frequent opportunities of showing the necessity of a public religion…and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others ancient or modern." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.251

Benjamin Franklin: "A Bible and a newspaper in every house, a good school in every district- all studied and appreciated as they merit- are the principle of virtue, morality, and civil liberty." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.246

James Madison, chief architect of the Constitution, signer of the Declaration, Secretary of State, President of the United States: "We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind to self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.", from "America's God and Country" by William Federer

James Madison: "...because the policy of the bill is adverse to the diffusion of the light of Christianity. The first wish of those who ought to enjoy this precious gift, ought to be, that it may be imparted to the whole race of mankind." ...A Memorial and Remonstrance, delivered to the General Assembly of Virginia, 1785, from "America's God and Country" by William Federer

James Madison: "The belief in God All Powerful wise and good, is so essential to the moral order of the World and to the happiness of man, that arguments which enforce it cannot be drawn from too many sources nor adapted with too much solicitude to the different characters and capacities to be impressed with it." In a letter to Frederick Beasley Nov. 20, from "America's God and Country" by William Federer

James Madison: "While we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess, and to observe, the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to them whose minds have not yielded to the evidence which has convinced us." From "A Memorial and Remonstrance" 1785, delivered to the general Assembly of the State of Virginia, from "America's God and Country" by William Federer

James Madison: "The real wonder is that so many difficulties should have been surmounted, and surmounted with a unanimity almost as unprecedented as it must have been unexpected. It is impossible for any man of candor to reflect on this circumstance without partaking of the astonishment. It is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it a finger of that Almighty hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution." January 11, 1788, Federalist Papers No. 37 And from Federalist Papers No. 43 "…The first question is answered at once by recurring to the absolute necessity of the case; to the great principle of self-preservation; to the transcendent law of nature and of nature's God, which declares that the safety and happiness of society are the objects at which all political institutions aim, and to which all such institutions must be sacrificed."

Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration, President of the United States: "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis; a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." from Query XVIII of his notes on the State of Virginia, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.323

Thomas Jefferson. "No power over the freedom of religion…(is) delegated to the United States by the Constitution." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.323

Thomas Jefferson: "The precepts of philosophy and of the Hebrew code, laid hold of actions only. (Jesus) pushed his scrutinizes into the heart of man, erected His tribunal in the regions of his thoughts, and purified the waters at the fountain head." April 21, 1803, in a letter to Benjamin Rush, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.333

Thomas Jefferson: March 4, 1805, offered A National Prayer for Peace: "Almighty God, Who has given us this good land for our heritage. We humbly beseech Thee that we may always prove ourselves a people mindful of Thy favor and glad to do Thy will. Bless our land with honorable ministry, sound learning, and pure manners. Save us from violence, discord, and confusion, from pride and arrogance, and from every evil way. Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united people the multitude brought hither out of many kindreds and tongues. Endow with Thy spirit of wisdom those to whom in Thy Name we entrust the authority of government, that there may be justice and peace at home, and that through obedience to Thy law, we may show forth Thy praise among the nations of the earth. In time of prosperity fill our hearts with thankfulness, and in the day of trouble, suffer not our trust to fail; all of which we ask through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.328

Fisher Ames, delegate to the Constitutional Convention and co-writer of the First Amendment wrote: … "the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms. Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble…the Bible will justly remain the standard of language as well as of faith." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.26

Gouverneur Morris, delegate to the Continental Congress and Constitutional Convention, head of the committee which created the final wording of the Constitution and the most active speaker, US Senator, Minister to France appointed by Washington advocated: "education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.455

John Jay, delegate to the Continental Congress, co-writer of the Federalist Papers along with Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, Governor of New York and original Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court: "Providence has given our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty, as well as privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Oct. 12, 1816, in a statement, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry Johnston, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

John Jay: "In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed in the Bible…At a party in Paris, once, the question fell on religious matters. In the course of it, one of them asked me if I believed in Christ? I answered that I did, and that I thanked God that I did."…a letter to John Bristed, April 23, 1811, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

John Jay: " By conveying the Bible to people thus circumstanced, we certainly do them a most interesting kindness. We thereby enable them to learn that man was originally created and placed in a state of happiness, but, becoming disobedient, was subjected to the degradation and evils which he and his posterity have since experienced. The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer, in whom all nations of the earth shall be blessed; that this Redeemer has made atonement 'for the sins of the whole world' and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift of grace of God, not of our deserving nor in our power to deserve." …May 13, 1824 in an address to The American Bible Society, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.318

Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, member of Continental Congress, founder of 5 universities, in a "Defense of the Use of The Bible in Schools", 1791; "Surely future generations wouldn't try to take the Bible out of schools. In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, if we were to remove the Bible from schools, I lament that we could be wasting so much time and money in punishing crime and would be taking so little pains to prevent them."

Benjamin Rush: "The only foundation for…a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.543

Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration and member of Continental Congress: "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure, which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." The Life and Correspondence of James McHenry by Bernard C. Steiner 1907, from a letter from Charles Carroll, Nov. 4, 1800.

Gabriel Duvall, US Supreme Court Justice, delegate to the Constitutional Convention: "I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of His mercy through our Savior Jesus Christ."…from his Last Will and Testament.

Elias Boudinot, President of the Continental Congress: "You have been instructed from your childhood in the knowledge of your lost state by nature; the absolute necessity of a change of heart, and an entire renovation of soul to the image of Jesus Christ; of salvation through His meritorious only; and the indispensable necessity of personal holiness without which no man shall see the Lord." …The Life, Public Services, Addresses, and Letters of Elias Boudinot, 1896, Vol. I, , p. 260, to his daughter.

James Iredell, US Supreme Court Justice under Washington: "I think the Christian religion is a divine institution and I pray to God that I may never forget the precepts of His religion or suffer the appearance of an inconsistency in my principles and practice."…The Papers of James Iredell, Dan Higginbotham editor, Vol 1, p.14.

Jacob Broom, signer of the Constitution: "Don't forget to be a Christian. I have said much to you on this head and I hope an indelible impression is made." letter to his son, 1794, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.76

John Witherspoon, signer of The Declaration of Independence: "He is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who set himself with the greatest firmness to bear down on profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy to his country." speech at the College of New Jersey (Princeton) , May 17,1776, America's God and Country, William Federer, pp. 703-704

Alexis de Tocqueville, French author and philosopher of renown who came on extended stay in America to find out the secret of the success of the American Independence : " Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention…The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other…Religion in America…must…be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country…From the earliest settlement of the emigrants, politics and religion contracted an alliance which has never been dissolved." from Democracy In America, 1835, de Tocqueville, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.204

Alexis de Tocqueville: "Religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society, but it must be regarded as the first of their political institutions; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion- or who can search the human heart?- but I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of their political institutions." from Democracy In America, 1835, de Tocqueville, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.204

George Mason, Delegate from Virginia to the Constitutional Convention, called the "Father of the Bill of Rights": "As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world, so they must be in this, by an inevitable chain of causes and effects. Providence punishes national sins by national calamities." debates of the Constitutional Convention, Aug. 22, 1787, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.423

Daniel Webster: "Our ancestors established their system of government on morality and religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be entrusted on any other foundation than religious principle, not any government secure which is not supported by moral habits…Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens." from speech at bicentennial celebration of the Pilgrims landing at Plymouth Rock, Dec. 22, 1820, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.669

John Quincy Adams, President of the United States: "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected, in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity… The United States of America were no longer colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians." July 4, 1821 from The Pulpit of the American Revolution by John Wingate Thornton 1860, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.18

John Quincy Adams: "The Declaration Of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth and laid the cornerstone of human government upon the precepts of Christianity." July 4th, 1837, An Oration Delivered Before the Inhabitants of the Town of Newburyport, at the 61st Anniversary of The Declaration of independence, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.204

John Quincy Adams: "Duty is ours; results are God's. The first and almost the only Book deserving of universal attention is the Bible. I speak as a man of the world to men of the world; and I say to you, Search the Scriptures! The Bible is the book of all others, to be read at all ages, and in all conditions of human life; not to be read once or twice or thrice through, and then laid aside, but to be read in small portions of one or two chapters every day, and never to be intermitted, unless by some overruling necessity. In what light so ever we regard the Bible, whether with reference to revelation, to history, or to morality, it is an invaluable and inexhaustible mine of knowledge and virtue. It is no slight testimonial, both to the merit and worth of Christianity, that in all ages since its promulgation the great mass of those who have risen to eminence by their profound wisdom and integrity have recognized and reverenced Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of the living God." "…Posterity- you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." America's God and Country, William Federer, p.19-20

On September 26, 1642 the guidelines that would govern Harvard University, our nation's first college, were established. They read, in part, "Let every student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternal life (John 17:3), and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)." The motto of Harvard was "Christi Gloriam" (Christ be glorified) and the college was later dedicated Christo et Ecclesiae (for Christ and for the Church). The founders of Harvard believed that "All knowledge without Christ was vain."…from The Presidential Prayer Team.org, March, 31, 2002.

In 1751, the Pennsylvania State Assembly called for the forging of a bell to commemorate William Penn's original charter of the state. They included instructions requiring that a scripture verse be included on the bell. The verse is Leviticus 25:10, "Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." Our founding fathers considered it important for all generations to know that God is the source of true freedom. The Liberty Bell is yet another example of our nation's godly heritage.

Noah Webster, Founding Father, scholar, author of the first and still respected American Dictionary: "The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions of governments." 1832, History of the United States, Noah Webster, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.678

Noah Webster: "The command of God is ' He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in fear of God.' 2 Sam. 23:3. This command prescribes the only effectual; remedy for public evils. It is an absurd and impious sentiment, that religious character is not necessary for public officers…But surely as there is a God in heaven who exercises a moral government over affairs of this world, so certainly will the neglect of the divine command, in the choice of rulers, be followed by bad laws, crimes, waste of public money, and a thousand other evils. Men devise and adopt new forms of government; they amend old forms, repair breaches, and punish violators of the constitution; but there is, there can be, no effectual remedy, but obedience to The Divine Law." John Marshal argued, by some to be our greatest Chief Justice of the Supreme Court: "The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it."…letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833.

Abraham Lincoln: "We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand, which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us." March 30, 1863, Proclamation Appointing A National Fast Day, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.383

Woodrow Wilson, President of the United States in 1911: "America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness, which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures. Part of the destiny of Americans lies in their daily perusal of this great book of revelations. That if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Spirit." speech at a Denver rally, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.697

Harry Truman, President of the United States: "the basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a...government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state." Feb. 15, 1950, address to the Attorney General's Conference, America's God and Country, William Federer, p.589

(The above posted with thanks to Tailgunner Joe!)


271 posted on 08/26/2006 10:39:39 AM EDT by EternalVigilance


309 posted on 08/26/2006 10:44:44 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Go Katherine "ALL your base are belong to us." Go here: http://www.ElectHarris.org)
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To: JulieRNR21
She follows in the tradition and spirit of our Founders....And....her right to do so is protected by the First Amendment of our Constitution.

I don't see anyone arguing that she should be prohibited from making these claims, and whether or not she's following in the spirit of the Founders is really irrelevant.

The only issue of importance here is whether this was a politically astute move on her part. I suspect even ardent Harris supporters would have a hard time claiming the answer to that question is "yes".

310 posted on 08/26/2006 10:50:02 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: thoughtomator

"America was intended to be a nation of secular laws for a religious people, not religious laws for a secular people"

Right on! Religious laws for a secular people = the Taliban!

There's a consistent, disturbing thread among the politically active evangelical Christians. About 20 years ago, I heard Jerry Falwell state something to the effect that the religious right wanted to ramrod anti-abortion laws and then worry about teaching the philosophical and religious rationale behind it. He was unwilling to take the approach that I would expect a man of God to take; namely, preach the word, strengthen conscience and conviction, and then let people exercise their agency and franchise, trusting that all you could do was effective.

Ms. Harris, as classy as she is, apparently has that same worldview. It's a belief that secular laws can make people righteous. In principle, righteous people would need no laws or lawmakers. What laws made Abraham or Moses righteous? Ministers, in particular, should focus on making people better from the pulpit, in the streets, and in the homes of people. They don't need to be legislating righteousness.

As far as I'm concerned, once a minister forsakes the flock to chase a political agenda, that's a sign that his faith is weak. Instead of trusting in God and the power of his calling, he seeks to exploit the state's power instead. He chooses Mammon over God to accomplish his goals.

When Pharaoh wouldn't let Israel go, Moses didn't organize an opposition party and try to take over the government. He didn't have a political action committee, he didn't hold a fund-raiser, and he didn't run for office. He wisely left it in God's hands and his faith was answered.

Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed, etc. are all cut from the same cloth. An observation: I've seen several ministers declare that they felt that God wanted them to pursue elective office to do his will. I never saw a one of them leave office, stating that God wanted them to forsake power and its perks to return to being an obscure, humble pastor.

Don't take it that I believe Christians and religious people should not be involved in the political process. I just believe that ministers have an obligation to a higher power than to the people. From that position, politics is a step down, not up.


311 posted on 08/26/2006 10:55:18 AM PDT by gregwest
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To: sinkspur

You chose to act as plaintiff and judge of her statements. Furnishing the 'legal brief' is your burden. Can you validate your condemnation theologically or is your judgment based strictly on your own opinion?


312 posted on 08/26/2006 10:57:34 AM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque
Someone help me here. Who do I vote for in the primary. McBride or LeRoy Collins? Haris is out. NO WAY she can win. I want a WINNER who can beat Nelson.

I can do the early bird voting this week.

313 posted on 08/26/2006 10:59:32 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (Join the DUmmie FUnnies PING List for the FUNNIEST Blog on the Web)
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To: NittanyLion

The purpose of this article was to attack Katherine Harris for expressing her Christian beliefs and to quote others who would support that attack.

The writer succeeded in achieving his goal!

When Katherine gave this interview to the Baptist Witness publication she wasn't concerned about 'political astutemess' anymore that candidate George W. Bush was when he said that 'Jesus Christ changed his life'.




314 posted on 08/26/2006 11:11:02 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Go Katherine "ALL your base are belong to us." Go here: http://www.ElectHarris.org)
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To: JulieRNR21
When Katherine gave this interview to the Baptist Witness publication she wasn't concerned about 'political astutemess' anymore that candidate George W. Bush was when he said that 'Jesus Christ changed his life'.

Hmmm...how many ways to reply...

1. She's a candidate for US Senate, perhaps she should've been more concerned.

2. One can hardly claim that comments directed at the political process were not intended to be taken in a political context.

3. Any politician who would suggest that only Christians can lead the nation without legislating sin is either a moron or an anti-Semite. And I say that as a Christian.

315 posted on 08/26/2006 11:18:39 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: deport
What that Harris lady said for archival purposes on this thread.....

The questions and answers:

question:
What role do you think people of faith should play in politics and government?

answer:
The Bible says we are to be salt and light. And salt and light means not just in the church and not just as a teacher or as a pastor or a banker or a lawyer, but in government and we have to have elected officials in government and we have to have the faithful in government and over time, that lie we have been told, the separation of church and state, people have internalized, thinking that they needed to avoid politics and that is so wrong because God is the one who chooses our rulers. And if we are the ones not actively involved in electing those godly men and women and if people aren’t involved in helping godly men in getting elected than we’re going to have a nation of secular laws. That’s not what our founding fathers intended and that’s certainly isn’t what God intended. So it’s really important that members of the church know people’s stands. It’s really important that they get involved in campaigns. I said I’m going to run a campaign of integrity. I’m not going to run it like all of the campaigns that I’ve seen before…. And you know, it’s hard to find people that are gonna behave that way in a campaign and be honorable that way in a campaign. But that’s why we need the faithful and we need to take back this country. It’s time that the churches get involved. Pastors, from the pulpit, can invite people to speak, not on politics, but of their faith. But they can discern, they can ask those people running for election, in the pulpit, what is your position on gay marriage? What is your position on abortion? That is totally permissible in 5013C organizations. They simply cannot endorse from the pulpit. And that’s why I’ve gone to churches and I’ve spoken in four churches, five churches a day on Sunday and people line up afterwards because it’s so important that they know. And if we don’t get involved as Christians then how could we possibly take this back?

question:
Why should Florida Baptists care about this primary election?

answer:
They should care about this election period. I will tell you that everywhere I go throughout the state and even the nation, people say the pollsters, the politicians and spiritually—that Florida is the forerunner state. That what happens in Florida sets the trend for what happens nationally. And with this election, if Bill Nelson wins, it’s going to be a very frightening proposition in 2008 in the presidential elections because whoever wins Florida will win the presidency. And he’ll be in a position to largely influence. No other candidate can beat Bill Nelson except for me. No one even has a chance because of name identification and fund raising abilities and things like that. But the real issue is why should Baptists care, why should people care? If you are not electing Christians, tried and true, under public scrutiny and pressure, if you’re not electing Christians then in essence you are going to legislate sin. They can legislate sin. They can say that abortion is alright. They can vote to sustain gay marriage. And that will take western civilization, indeed other nations because people look to our country as one nation as under God and whenever we legislate sin and we say abortion is permissible and we say gay unions are permissible, then average citizens who are not Christians, because they don’t know better, we are leading them astray and it’s wrong. ...


316 posted on 08/26/2006 11:22:52 AM PDT by deport
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To: NittanyLion

Look ...no matter what she says or does....she is attacked.

You have your opinion....I have mind.

Have a nice day!


317 posted on 08/26/2006 11:24:15 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Go Katherine "ALL your base are belong to us." Go here: http://www.ElectHarris.org)
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To: JulieRNR21
George W. Bush was when he said that 'Jesus Christ changed his life'.

And incidentally, President Bush stated that Jesus Christ was the most important philosopher in his life. He didn't go on to claim that this should be a litmus test for elected office.

318 posted on 08/26/2006 11:25:00 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion

And incidentally, President Bush stated that Jesus Christ was the most important philosopher in his life. He didn't go on to claim that this should be a litmus test for elected office.




In later interview where President Bush spoke more about his Christian faith. I do recall him saying that Jesus did 'change his life.'

I don't interpret KH's answer as a 'litmus test'. She is saying to Baptists...if you want someone to represent your values regarding abortion and homosexual marriage......I am the best one to do that.

Here's her entire response to the question:


Why should Florida Baptists care about this primary election?

They should care about this election period. I will tell you that everywhere I go throughout the state and even the nation, people say the pollsters, the politicians and spiritually—that Florida is the forerunner state. That what happens in Florida sets the trend for what happens nationally. And with this election, if Bill Nelson wins, it’s going to be a very frightening proposition in 2008 in the presidential elections because whoever wins Florida will win the presidency. And he’ll be in a position to largely influence. No other candidate can beat Bill Nelson except for me. No one even has a chance because of name identification and fund raising abilities and things like that. But the real issue is why should Baptists care, why should people care? If you are not electing Christians, tried and true, under public scrutiny and pressure, if you’re not electing Christians then in essence you are going to legislate sin. They can legislate sin. They can say that abortion is alright. They can vote to sustain gay marriage. And that will take western civilization, indeed other nations because people look to our country as one nation as under God and whenever we legislate sin and we say abortion is permissible and we say gay unions are permissible, then average citizens who are not Christians, because they don’t know better, we are leading them astray and it’s wrong. ...


319 posted on 08/26/2006 11:45:09 AM PDT by JulieRNR21 (Go Katherine "ALL your base are belong to us." Go here: http://www.ElectHarris.org)
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To: jf55510
So, you think that Jews, Mormons and so forth are immoral people who should not serve in government?

Only a moral and religious people should serve in government. It is wholly inadequate to the governance by any other.

If people stayed true to the Christian principles upon which this nation was founded then it wouldn't really matter who ran for government , be they Mormon, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever for only those people with like-minded strong moral and religious convictions would get elected by the populace and the country would've remained strong.

However since the majority of the American populace has strayed away from it's Christian Heritage they are now electing immoral and godless conniving lying power hungry dictatorial politicians to do their bidding and the country is now hanging on by a thread having drifted far away from it's original Christian moorings and as a result it should be obvious to anyone but the blind that the country is in serious decline and impending destruction.

320 posted on 08/26/2006 11:48:49 AM PDT by whatisthetruth
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