Posted on 08/24/2006 10:02:06 AM PDT by presidio9
A U.S. Baptist preacher has publicly defended himself for firing a female Sunday School teacher after more than 50 years on the job because he believes the Bible bans women from teaching men.
Watertown First Baptist Church Pastor Tim LaBouf, also a city council member in Watertown, N.Y., said women could fulfill any role or responsibility they wanted to -- outside the church.
"My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," LaBouf said in a statement on the church Web site (http://www.nnyinfo.com/firstbaptist).
LaBouf and the church board fired Mary Lambert, 81, earlier this month in a letter that cited the scriptural qualifications for Sunday School teachers, Lambert said.
"They quote First Timothy Two, 11-14: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent," Lambert said, reading from the letter.
"I was astonished," she said. "I would not go back and teach as long as this is their thinking."
Watertown is 250 miles northwest of New York City.
William Carlsen, executive minister for American Baptist Churches of New York State, said U.S. Baptist Churches are autonomous and that there would not be many other Baptist Churches that share LaBouf's view.
"A considerable number if not a majority of American Baptist Churches have been quite aggressive in affirming the place of women's leadership roles within the church," Carlsen said.
The board of the Watertown First Baptist Church said in a statement on its Web site that the scripture rules concerning women teaching men in a church setting had only played a small part in Lambert's sacking.
"Christian courtesy motivates us to refrain from making any public accusations against her," the board said.
UM - ok - but it sure sounds like Pauls preference
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man"
God expects men to be the leaders.
- eh - partly accurate - moreso God expects men to be the spiritual leaders of thier homes and family
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
a few questions then - does your wife remain silent in the church ?
please exaplain for the benefit of our readers what worship in the Church of Corinth was like.......please include the part where men and women were separated and disruption arose when women would shout questions to thier husbands - disrupting worship
v34 - which Law is he referring ?
do we remain under the law ?
Obviously you haven't read much about Apostle Paul. He did NOT hate women or "girls". That's foolish. He was looking towards women focusing on Christ, not men. He was also looking towards man focusing on Christ, not women.
Todays sexual society is his PERFECT example of what happens when that focus is moved from Christ to each other because he knew where it would lead. Just turn the TV on.
Actually, the term is "helpmeet." It refers to someone who is good enough to be an equal to the man. All the beasts failed. Any man or woman who thinks that the Bible calls the woman a man's beast of burden has not read the Bible, but has listened to propaganda.
Woman was created to be a helpmeet to man, and not man to be a helpmeet to woman, because man existed first. I'm not ABOUT to opine on why G-d did things in that order.
However, I have heard it suggested that V2.0 corrects the bugs found in V1.0.
Shalom.
can anyone say with any certainty if this guy has and female missionaries ?
Consistency would say no
No one, at any time told you to be silent and no true Christian man would WANT or EXPECT you to be silent
__________
This quote, one that was posted to me by DungeonMaster (hence the courtesy ping) seems to contradict your statement above. There are, apparently, in scripture, times when a woman is expected to be silent.
1tim2 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence
I've read Paul,
more than once, different versions.
Just because his words are in the bible
doesn't hide who 'he' was.
I stand by what I said.
He's got a bias a mile wide and it shows.
Again, he was not 'a girls best friend'
quiet the opposite.
"Men are about finding out for themselves, sometimes taking the hard way."
Like the time when I decided to see if some black powder made in the late 1800's was still good? I lost my eyebrows on that one.
I don't know how much of the Bible you have read for yourself, but your interpretation of Paul and mine vary considerably.
I was on Vashti's side as well, but the emperor did not ask my opinion. The decision to treat her like a sex object in front of his guests, and the subsequent decision to remove her so the women of the empire would not become uppity, caused him no end of trouble. I don't believe the Bible condones his behavior in the least.
There is nothing that you have been taught that you could not be taught better. However, G-d only says that the truth will set you free when you seek Him with all of your heart. While you're trying to prove women are as good as men the Bible will not help you. When you seek G-d while He may be found, no matter where that leads you, I believe you will see just how special women are to Him.
Shalom.
irregardless of the female ordination issue - you are right - there was no grace here -
Id expect more spiritual fruits from a Pastor
Its my hope he's not driven her from the congregation.....if not church itself
I pity him the wrath of God if this is the case
Sorry. No way am I riding a bike dressed like that.
Sorry. No way am I riding a bike, dressed like that.
No. Only G-d can make that determination.
IMHO: If we would focus more on being "little Christs" as the Bible commands us to do and left the correcting of doctrine to the Holy Spirit, which is His job, the Church would be a far better place.
That said, my personal experience is there are people who read the Bible because they are seeking the G-d who IS, to know Him fully and completely, and people who use the Bible to support the image of G-d they have created in their own minds. I believe those who want to claim that G-d supports homosexual relationships fall into the latter category. If you are one of them, I would discuss that with you.
But I would not dare to usurp G-d's authority to decide your final destination.
Shalom.
. I've tried for YEARS to teach Xena's Guy which side of the sink the dirty dishes go on.
_______
Too funny. But let me guess. After Zena's guy has put the dishes in the wrong place, Zena then comes behind him and puts them in the right place.
Someone has been taught something.
However, I have heard it suggested that V2.0 corrects the bugs found in V1.0.
Shalom.
Again,
God/Father/Molester/Abuser are all one in the same for me. Yes, I'm a mess, I admit it, but I'm WAY better than I was 5 years ago! So I watch a lot, observe a lot, read a lot....
For me to one day see God as loving, I will have to see him very, very differently than you do. It's not about being "as good as", it's about my soul being equal, my spirit being as strong and what I have to give being no different because of my chromosomes.
Again, I've found 'doors' and windows and glimpses of understanding.
But not one ephiphany of mine as been found in the Bible (a very tainted book for me) and those who've helped to me have been a mix of all religions.
You wrote: "Its my hope he's not driven her from the congregation.....if not church itself
I pity him the wrath of God if this is the case"
I feel as you do too. God is just and the avenger of the innocent. I've seen many a misguided scripture quoter over the years take many lumps from the Lord for doing ignorant things to other believers.
No one, at any time told you to be silent and no true Christian man would WANT or EXPECT you to be silent
__________
This quote, one that was posted to me by DungeonMaster (hence the courtesy ping) seems to contradict your statement above. There are, apparently, in scripture, times when a woman is expected to be silent.
1tim2 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence
Well, I'm impressed! ;-)
Ok,
What if you're a single woman
and you're sitting on 'your side' of the congregation,
and your male preacher says something that you think is
totally idiotic, ungodly BS about something that you (the lowly single female) happen to know something about.
So, you sit there quietly, and later, after church,
pull him asside and try to tell him what you know.
He is polite and thanks you for your input.
And gets up the next Sunday with the same bunch of ignorant BS.
All respect is lost and the lowly single female decides she can better spend her time planting daylilies on Sunday.
End of Story.
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