Posted on 08/21/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Bob J
In earlier news it was reported that a Baptist Sunday school teacher of 54 years was let go from her position because "My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," the Pastor was quoted as saying.
Apparently in a letter sent to the teacher earlier in the month they qouted from First Timothy Two, 11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
This news was posted on FR here and here.
It's an interesting topic considering the current discussions regarding Sharia law and the treatment of women in Islam. Some FReepers were shocked and others appeared to support the policy based on scripture interpretation.
What is your opinion?
Now, if the qualifications for teaching is smarts then Adam (man) is in deficit and Eve (woman) is triumphant because she is obvously more persuasive.
My conclusion? Eve better teacher than Adam.
"According to Scripture those who divorce and remarry are committing adultery, which not only a sin but one of the top 10."
Read Matthew 19 again. That's not what it says at all.
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Was the woman not able to initiate the teaching of a lesson to the disciples on that day?
My wife says I agree.
Of course the should be able to.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The what should be able to do what?
Gen3:6 ...She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
Since he was there, he was also decieved.
"God sees the fact that the woman, having the nature that God gave her, was known by Satan to be susceptible to deception, was confronted by Satan, was lied to by Satan, and sinned against God as a result of the deception."
Gen 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
They were created equal and in the image of God. There's no difference between them as far as rational powers of mind go. Paul gave that passage out of the hardness in men's hearts. That's the same reason Moses gave the divorce law.
LOL
Teach men scripture :)
The Lord died for His Church, so it follows we should do only what the Lord commands. Women should keep silence in The Church.
The point that God is making is that Satan went to Eve to begin mankind's sin and rebellion against God. He did not go to Adam. He went to Eve for a reason; that reason being that Eve was easier to deceive than Adam. And Satan turned out to be right.
God is not going to take the chance of having the woman, who was deceived, being in positions of authority in His church and having "doctines of demons" infiltrating the church as a result. And if you look at "churches" headed by women, with very, very few exceptions, they are full of every kind of bizarre belief and whacko fad and advocating rebellion against God that can be found under the sun.
If I have a choice, I'll throw in with God's rules for churches and His roles for men and women. And as a woman, I don't feel the slightest bit offended by God's rules and commandments about His church. Outside of the church, I am free to, as a Christian, pursue any profession I wish, provided it is in God's will for my life. But in the church, I will defer to God's wishes about who has what role.
I trust that God, Who created the church, knows what He is doing.
Um I think you are taking liberties where they don't exist.
..I thought the moderator said 2 was plenty?.....curious
If it's "your" church, "my" church or "their" church, the point has been missed already.
As far as women being "in submission", it has nothing to do with the feminist connotation of what that means. To feminists, the phrase inevitably means "under domination of". People (even feminists) are "in submission" to lots of things without getting their hackles raised.
The only people who refuse to submit to anything are in prison -- where they submit, just against their will.
At my church, all the sunday school teachers are men. It's a small church with an overabundance of young boys. We decided that we men could garner their respect and attention better. Besides that, the mom's are all extremely busy and need a break. Most of us homeschool our kids and that's a full time teaching job.
That said, scripturally, the pastor was correct, but it depends upon the ages of the students. If they were teenage or adults, she should absolutely not be in a position of scriptural authority
But he'll put a man in charge, who was also deceived and having a "doctrine of woman" infiltrating the church?
Eve was easier to deceive? Adam believed what Eve told him, no questions asked.
Eve had lots of objections, and was dealing with a supernatural being.
Anyway, this whole story, in my view, is just that: a way to relate the fall of man. All of Genesis is a story, since no eyewitnesses were around to see any of it happen.
God did not set the rules for churches; man did. I'd rather be taught by a Scripturally-educated woman than an illiterate man.
You're right. Most of the time, the men can't or won't fill various teaching positions in the church so they have to find a woman to do it. If the church has to put a woman in that position, they should also have the courtesy to tell her from the beginning of her tenure that if they find a qualified man to take the position, they will turn it over to him.
That obviously wasn't done in this situation b/c of a change in leadership, but that would be the ideal and most fair
LOL! Women produce doctrines of demons? Who conjured up that doctrine of original sin? Hmmm? That doctrine is false and it was conjured up by males.
I will give you this:
2 Peter 3:15-17:
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
I do hope that somehow, with someone who can reach you, that God can change your heart and give you the wisdom and the understanding of His word that He will only give to those who know His Son as Savior.
God bless you, Spunkets.
"Well, if women are so given to deception, and it took a supernatural being to deceive Eve, what does that say about Adam, who was deceived by an ordinary woman?"
The scripture quoted sure doesn't mesh with your above statement. Eve was someone Adam trusted, not much need to have his guard up. Eve should have been on guard against the serpent. Don't let facts get in way of your reasoning.
The only way I'll submit is if you beat me to a bloody pulp and break my back.
Submit is a very nasty word in my world.
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