Tests on mysterious stone could rewrite history(LaSalle and Marquette)

Belleville News Democrat ^ | 14 Aug 2006 | AP

[Marius3188]

May prove LaSalle explored Mississippi before Marquette

QUINCY - What's certain is that something's written in the stone. What's less certain is whether the markings have any historical significance.

Now, University of Illinois scientists have agreed to examine the limestone slab some believe proves French explorer Robert Cavelier de LaSalle was the first white man to see the upper Mississippi River in 1671 -- two years before Father Jacques Marquette and Louis Joliet made their famous trek.

The foot high, 8-inch wide stone, which was found by a farmer in the early 1900s in Ellington Township north of Quincy, has prompted speculation for decades.

Lee Politsch, 84, of Quincy has been in the forefront of that speculation since he first heard about the stone in 1956, then got permission to study it.

History books widely peg Marquette and Joliet as the first Europeans to explore the Mississippi. But Politsch has spent 50 years arguing that LaSalle happened upon the upper Mississippi two years earlier, and he says the mysterious stone proves just that.

Among the markings on the stone are the numbers "1671."

Politsch told the Quincy Herald-Whig he hopes the university researchers, by examining the Ellington Stone, will come up with hard evidence backing his theory.

The researchers will conduct a variety of tests -- including ones to determine if the stone was actually carved in the 1600s or, alternatively, if it might be a fake.

"If they come back and say, yep, those carvings are about 300 years old, then that would be sensational," Politsch said. "But if they decide that that cutting was done about 1905 or around there, then it's going to kind of take the wind out of the stone's sails."

Even if the researchers manage to disprove Politsch's theory, the effort won't be a waste of time, argued Sarah Wisseman, director of the Program on Ancient Technologies and Archaeological Materials at the U of I's Champaign-Urbana campus.

The researchers will borrow the stone for six months from the Quincy Museum, and they will also present a report of their findings sometime next year.

"Even if we fail to say this is definitely authentic or not authentic, we will have increased the information available about the stone, which, from a museum perspective, means you can tell a better story," she said.

The Quincy Museum's executive director holds out at least a hope of something dramatic.

"If it turns out to be what Mr. Politsch and some of the other researchers believe it is ... it will change our perception of Illinois history dramatically," said Barbara Wilkinson. "It could just be shattering as far as the current accepted discovery of Illinois."

[mathurine]

Thanks. But do you remember the IHS part? It would be useful if you might.

[GoLightly]

So, you got part of it right which is about normal for a head full of cheddar. :^)

LOL You misunderestimate me. Other cheeses are also good. :o)

I didn't know they used that in RI.

May not be the whole state, bein as it's so big n'all. Years ago, I ran into some guy from RI on a different board. Every once in awhile, regional linguistic quirks would become a topic. The RI guy & I were giving some woman from MD fits, dropping wild clues like, "place for middle school boys to park mini-skirted chics". One of those silly "how Southern are you?" quiz deals, said there's an area in Southern MA where it's used.

Yeah???? Just wait till next year------

LOL Trust me, I know the feeling.

...dar, hey.

Sheesh I thought I heard them all.

Not dar, der, rhymes w/ there. I forgot to include the standard "ya" that usually precedes "der hey". :o) My ex is 100% Polish & when he'd give me the business about my mutt pedigree, specially the German part, "ya der hey" was usually a reliable response. lol

[GoLightly]

But do you remember the IHS part? It would be useful if you might.

I haven't a clue about IHS. I was following along w/ your back & forth about it, in the hope that I'd learn from y'all. I knew you weren't correct about a mother named Sophia & while double checking, found out the correct translation for the basilica.

Bout the only Latin that ever stuck w/ me was "sempar (semper?) ubis sub-ubis" & yes, I know that is very substandard usage.

[paulat]

Why keep clams

It's a Seattle-ism. We had a guy who ran a string of seafood joints...and his motto was "Keep Clam."

[raybbr]

Not dar, der, rhymes w/ there. I forgot to include the standard "ya" that usually precedes "der hey". :o) My ex is 100% Polish & when he'd give me the business about my mutt pedigree, specially the German part, "ya der hey" was usually a reliable response. lol

Okay, I will use "ya der hey" on the guy at work and look for his response.

Thanks. It was fun. See you around and God bless. Ray.

[Bellflower]

Does anyone have any more info on the resting cross symbol?

[concentric circles]

I haven't been able to learn anything about the resting or reclining cross. The Jesuits used an image of three nails beneath the IHS and cross monogram.

If this was left by La Salle it would make sense that he would use a Christian sign but not the Jesuit version. The Society of Jesus sought to monopolize trade and exploration throughout the upper Great Lakes and treated all others as rivals.

In some circles it was common practice to post the IHS symbol above entries and gates. The Ellington Stone was found near the high ground of the portage from McKee Creek to Cedar Creek, from the Illinois River drainage to the Mississippi River drainage. Just the type of location where a shelter might be built and consecrated with a Christian symbol over the doorway.

[visualops]

The vision that Constantine had before battle was a cross and the phrase "in hoc signo vinces", and is not IHS, which is a monogram of Our Saviour's name.

"From the third century the names of our Saviour are sometimes shortened, particularly in Christian inscriptions (IH and XP, for Jesus and Christus). In the next century the "sigla" (chi-rho) occurs not only as an abbreviation but also as a symbol. From the beginning, however, in Christian inscriptions the nomina sacra, or names of Jesus Christ, were shortened by contraction, thus IC and XC or IHS and XPS for Iesous Christos. These Greek monograms continued to be used in Latin during the Middle Ages. Eventually the right meaning was lost, and erroneous interpretation of IHS led to the faulty orthography "Jhesus". In Latin the learned abbreviation IHC rarely occurs after the Carlovingian era. The monogram became more popular after the twelfth century when St. Bernard insisted much on devotion to the Holy Name of Jesus, and the fourteenth, when the founder of the Jesuati, Blessed John Colombini (d. 1367), usually wore it on his breast. Towards the close of the Middle Ages IHS became a symbol, quite like the chi-rho in the Constantinian period. Sometimes above the H appears a cross and underneath three nails, while the whole figure is surrounded by rays. IHS became the accepted iconographical characteristic of St. Vincent Ferrer (d. 1419) and of St. Bernardine of Siena (d. 1444). The latter holy missionary, at the end of his sermons, was wont to exhibit this monogram devoutly to his audience, for which some blamed him; he was even called before Martin V. St. Ignatius of Loyola adopted the monogram in his seal as general of the Society of Jesus (1541), and thus it became the emblem of his institute. IHS was sometimes wrongly understood as "Jesus Hominum (or Hierosolymae) Salvator", i.e. Jesus, the Saviour of men (or of Jerusalem=Hierosolyma)."

I.H.S.

[SunkenCiv]

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