Posted on 08/14/2006 6:51:34 PM PDT by blam
Israel humbled by arms from Iran
By Adrian Blomfield in Ghandouriyeh
(Filed: 15/08/2006)
Abandoned Hizbollah positions in Lebanon yesterday revealed conclusive evidence that Syria - and almost certainly Iran - provided the anti-tank missiles that have blunted the power of Israel's once invincible armour.
After one of the fiercest confrontations of the war, Israeli forces took the small town of Ghandouriyeh, east of the southern city of Tyre, on Sunday evening, hours before a ceasefire brokered by the United Nations took effect.
Israeli soldiers hold a Israeli flag after returning from Lebanon
At least 24 Israeli soldiers were killed in the advance on the strategic hilltop town as Hizbollah fighters were pushed back to its outskirts, abandoning many weapons.
The discovery helped to explain the slow progress made by Israeli ground forces in nearly five weeks of a war which Hizbollah last night claimed as "a historic victory." Israeli political and military leaders are facing mounting criticism over the conduct of the offensive, which was intended to smash the Iranian-backed Shia militia.
Outside one of the town's two mosques a van was found filled with green casings about 6ft long. The serial numbers identified them as AT-5 Spandrel anti-tank missiles. The wire-guided weapon was developed in Russia but Iran began making a copy in 2000.
Beyond no-man's land, in the east of the village, was evidence of Syrian-supplied hardware. In a garden next to a junction used as an outpost by Hizbollah lay eight Kornet anti-tank rockets, described by Brig Mickey Edelstein, the commander of the Nahal troops who took Ghandouriyeh, as "some of the best in the world".
Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia."
Brig Edelstein said: "If they tell you that Syria knew nothing about this, just look. This is the evidence. Proof, not just talk."
The discovery of the origin of the weapons proved to the Israelis that their enemy was not a ragged and lightly armed militia but a semi-professional army equipped by Syria and Iran to take on Israel. The weapons require serious training to operate and could be beyond the capabilities of some supposedly regular armies in the Middle East. The Kornet was unveiled by Russia in 1994. It is laser-guided, has a range of three miles and carries a double warhead capable of penetrating the reactive armour on Israeli Merkava tanks. Russia started supplying them to Syria in 1998.
Israeli forces were taken by surprise by the sophistication of the anti-tank weapons they faced. They are believed to have accounted for many of the 116 deaths the army suffered. Dozens of tanks were hit and an unknown number destroyed.
The missiles were also used against infantry, in one case bringing down a house and killing nine soldiers. They played an important part in Hizbollah's tactics of using a network of concealed positions to set up ambushes for the Israelis as they inched in. Last night, Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah leader, said his men had achieved "a strategic, historic victory" over "a confused, cowardly and defea-ted" enemy. He said the militia would not disarm, as Israel and the UN Security Council were demanding. It would be "immoral, incorrect and inappropriate," he said. "It is the wrong timing on a pyschological and moral level."
As the militia leader was claiming victory, Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, defended his handling of the crisis and said that the massive air, ground and sea attack had changed the face of the Middle East. But he admitted that the military and political leadership was guilty of "shortcomings", not least in underestimating the threat from anti-tank weapons.
Critics say that he placed too much faith in the ability of the air force to break the back of Hizbollah and delayed launching a major ground offensive until it was too late.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud Party leader and a rival, said: "There were many failures - failures on identifying the threat, failures in preparing to meet the threat, failures in the management of the war, failures in the management of the home front."
Last night, President George W. Bush blamed Iran and Syria for fomenting the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah. "We can only imagine how much more dangerous this conflict would be if Iran had the nuclear weapon it seeks," he said.
If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Israel will probably attack almost immediately--understandable as their country would be under extreme threat.
This explains why Assad is talking tough about the Golan heights. He's trying to overcome the perception, that he just had his butt kicked up between his shoulders. And with him, that's a pretty hard kick.
Humbled? That's a stretch.
Axis of Evil member supplying weapons to attack our ally. Well, Mr. President, isn't it high time for action?
"Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia." "
From Russia with Love!
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud Party leader and a rival, said: "There were many failures - failures on identifying the threat, failures in preparing to meet the threat, failures in the management of the war, failures in the management of the home front."
I like Ben but this is not the time to be assigning blame, as now, he too has jumped on the bandwagon that "Israel was humbled" by Hez'bollah. Such bullshit.
You'll find (as I noted in a previous post on another thread) that this particular company has had sanctions placed on it by the USG.
(And more evidence showing John Bolton one of the few in the State Department who actually knows what they are doing):
"U.S., RUSSIA DISCUSS PROLIFERATION AND IRAN... U.S. Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton held talks in Moscow with Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Kislyak on 17 September, Russian and international media reported. Bolton told Interfax following the meeting that he and Kislyak discussed arms control and arms proliferation, and the issue of Russia's nuclear cooperation with Iran. Asked about Washington's decision this week to impose sanctions on KBP Tula (see "RFE/RL Newsline," 17 September 2003), a state-owned Russian company that the United States accuses of selling laser-guided artillery sells to Iran, Bolton said such sanctions are required by U.S. law and will be imposed on other Russian companies if they are determined to be doing similar business with Iran. "This issue is the subject of our constant attention," Interfax quoted Bolton as saying."
As you can see, the Russians were warned - now it is up to us to ensure Bolton's words vis-a-vis Washington policy are carried out. If not, it will only encourage more arms traders from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, to violate sanctions as they have in the past and probably do in the present.
My question to you - SPANALOT - will you join the rest of us in condemning Russian, UKRAINIAN, and Belarusian companies that do business with rogues? Or are you going to stick with defending Ukrainian interests no matter what they do that is counter to US security interests?
For example:
"The most serious breach of the united international front against Iraq may be the sale of the $100 million anti-stealth Ukrainian Kolchuga radar to the pariah state two years ago. Taped evidence suggests that president Leonid Kuchma himself instructed the General Director of the Ukrainian arms sales company, UkrSpetzExport, Valery Malev to conclude the deal. Malev died in a mysterious car accident on March 6, three days after his taped conversation with Kuchma surfaced.
The Ukrainians insist that they were preempted by Russian dealers who sold a similar radar system to Iraq - but this is highly unlikely as the Russian system was still in development at the time. the American and British are currently conducting a high-profile investigation in Kyiv."
Unfortunately, I don't think Israel makes a move anymore without explicit approval from Washington. This precedent started with them not retaliating against the Scuds in Gulf War I and has evolved into a major impediment to Israel's ability to defend itself. No one will admit it, but this is yet another reason for their poor performance.
Makes me sick.
Israel was. She fought with nine fingers tied behind her back (her choice) against a shameless enemy with no regards for modern conventions (including Geneva) -- and why should they? Nobody, not even Bush/Rice/the-State-Dept-traitors, even tried to hold them to those conventions. Hezbollah got a free pass on everything.
Complete and total win to Hezbollah.
(This round.)
"During the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom, US troops encountered an unanticipated, and formidable, weapon in the Iraqi arsenal -- Russian-built Kornet antitank missiles. Iraqi soldiers used the wire-guided missile system against American tanks, but the US military previously did not know they possessed. It emerged as the Iraqis' most effective direct-fire weapon against U.S. armor in the desert of southern Iraq. Iraqi commandos traveling in three-man teams dressed in black civilian robes and riding in Nissan pickup trucks moved against the flanks of columns of armor from the US Army's 3rd Infantry Division and launched broadside attacks from several kilometers away using the system. Those attacks had disabled at least two Abrahms tanks and one Bradley armored troop carrier in the opening week of the war. US military intelligence officials were extremely interested in capturing one of the missiles intact. They also instructed American soldiers who destroy one of the Kornet launchers to save the remains of the system for close inspection.
"The US State Department accused KBP of supplying Iraq with the Kornet missiles, something KBP and Moscow have vehemently denied. In a phone call on 24 March 2003 with U.S. President George W. Bush, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the American allegations of Russian sales of missiles, night-vision goggles, and radio-jamming equipment were "groundless.""
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/at-14.htm
"""Israel fought with nine fingers tied behind her back """
I am of the opinion that Olmert surprised me with the action he took against Hez'bollah's incursion into Israel, killing and kidnapping IDF soldiers.
Did you ever think he would order the invasion of 30,000 troops and bomb Lebanon for over two weeks?
I cannot denigrate the actions of the IDF, they fought bravely and valiantly. They took out over 600 Hez'bollah.
It's not over yet.
But... as far as the US, shame, shame on us..
Yet I read (on FR) complaints of how he's heavily restrained their actions. So:
- did he give them free reign?
- did he tightly restrict them?
Which is it?
We're gearing up for WW3.
<< But... as far as the US, shame, shame on us.. >>
Huh? You can't blame Bush for this one. Caroline Glick lays it out pretty well in the Jerusalem Post:
"After he gave Israel every opportunity to win this war, even signaling clearly that Israel should feel free to go as far as Beirut if necessary, President Bush was convinced that Olmert simply didn't want to fight. The Americans were shocked by Israel's performance. They know that we can win when we set our mind to it and were flummoxed when presented with an Israeli leadership that refused to even try."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525873714&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Would have been a different story with Bibi in charge.
I remember the 1967 war when Israel captured many Russian made tanks. they then converted them to their own use.
In 1973, when Egypt attacked Israel, the Israelis countered with massive tank attacks. The Egyptians ambushed them with massive anti-tank rpgs.
Isreal still needs to learn that lesson again.
Meanwhile, the Iranians, who probably gave the go-ahead for this war, are watching and learning all about Israel's fighting capabilities.
No worry. The UN will resolve everything.
http://www.inminds.co.uk/apr12-03-0406.jpg
I would disagree. There are already stories about Israeli subs in the gulf. You get three guesses where the subs are parked? (and the first two don't count).
I would assume that the Israeli response would be immediate and massive.
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