Posted on 08/14/2006 6:51:34 PM PDT by blam
Israel humbled by arms from Iran
By Adrian Blomfield in Ghandouriyeh
(Filed: 15/08/2006)
Abandoned Hizbollah positions in Lebanon yesterday revealed conclusive evidence that Syria - and almost certainly Iran - provided the anti-tank missiles that have blunted the power of Israel's once invincible armour.
After one of the fiercest confrontations of the war, Israeli forces took the small town of Ghandouriyeh, east of the southern city of Tyre, on Sunday evening, hours before a ceasefire brokered by the United Nations took effect.
Israeli soldiers hold a Israeli flag after returning from Lebanon
At least 24 Israeli soldiers were killed in the advance on the strategic hilltop town as Hizbollah fighters were pushed back to its outskirts, abandoning many weapons.
The discovery helped to explain the slow progress made by Israeli ground forces in nearly five weeks of a war which Hizbollah last night claimed as "a historic victory." Israeli political and military leaders are facing mounting criticism over the conduct of the offensive, which was intended to smash the Iranian-backed Shia militia.
Outside one of the town's two mosques a van was found filled with green casings about 6ft long. The serial numbers identified them as AT-5 Spandrel anti-tank missiles. The wire-guided weapon was developed in Russia but Iran began making a copy in 2000.
Beyond no-man's land, in the east of the village, was evidence of Syrian-supplied hardware. In a garden next to a junction used as an outpost by Hizbollah lay eight Kornet anti-tank rockets, described by Brig Mickey Edelstein, the commander of the Nahal troops who took Ghandouriyeh, as "some of the best in the world".
Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia."
Brig Edelstein said: "If they tell you that Syria knew nothing about this, just look. This is the evidence. Proof, not just talk."
The discovery of the origin of the weapons proved to the Israelis that their enemy was not a ragged and lightly armed militia but a semi-professional army equipped by Syria and Iran to take on Israel. The weapons require serious training to operate and could be beyond the capabilities of some supposedly regular armies in the Middle East. The Kornet was unveiled by Russia in 1994. It is laser-guided, has a range of three miles and carries a double warhead capable of penetrating the reactive armour on Israeli Merkava tanks. Russia started supplying them to Syria in 1998.
Israeli forces were taken by surprise by the sophistication of the anti-tank weapons they faced. They are believed to have accounted for many of the 116 deaths the army suffered. Dozens of tanks were hit and an unknown number destroyed.
The missiles were also used against infantry, in one case bringing down a house and killing nine soldiers. They played an important part in Hizbollah's tactics of using a network of concealed positions to set up ambushes for the Israelis as they inched in. Last night, Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah leader, said his men had achieved "a strategic, historic victory" over "a confused, cowardly and defea-ted" enemy. He said the militia would not disarm, as Israel and the UN Security Council were demanding. It would be "immoral, incorrect and inappropriate," he said. "It is the wrong timing on a pyschological and moral level."
As the militia leader was claiming victory, Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, defended his handling of the crisis and said that the massive air, ground and sea attack had changed the face of the Middle East. But he admitted that the military and political leadership was guilty of "shortcomings", not least in underestimating the threat from anti-tank weapons.
Critics say that he placed too much faith in the ability of the air force to break the back of Hizbollah and delayed launching a major ground offensive until it was too late.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud Party leader and a rival, said: "There were many failures - failures on identifying the threat, failures in preparing to meet the threat, failures in the management of the war, failures in the management of the home front."
Last night, President George W. Bush blamed Iran and Syria for fomenting the conflict between Israel and Hizbollah. "We can only imagine how much more dangerous this conflict would be if Iran had the nuclear weapon it seeks," he said.
Hold on, from your link:
"And then there is the military failure. The IDF suffers from acute leadership failures - brought to Israel courtesy of Ariel Sharon who hacked away at the General Staff, undermined its sense of mission and treated our generals like office boys just as he decimated the Likud by undermining its political vision and promoting its weakest members."
There seems to be a lot of blaming and finger pointing going on. But answer me this... Just how long should a "war" be allowed to last these days? It looks like Israel got all of two weeks to wage theirs against Hez'bollah who, under the aegis of the UN, or UNIFIL, the group of peacekeepers in Southern Lebanon who someone missed out on all the massive bunkers being built the last six years or the rockets being shipped from Iran via Syria.
Two weeks before the US backed down from saying it supported Israel and ran over to the UN, arm and arm with France to write up yet another "resolution". And what a resolution it is. The same old crap. UNIFIL.
Don't you realize that the whole intent of the UN was to regain some of their credibility as peacekeepers, that diplomacy "saved the day."
Saved the day for Israel for how long?
I chuckled the other night when I heard one of the military analysts say that Israel would turn the whole of Iran into a cinder.
LOL!!!
;)
Yeah, they're so effective.
The next round; because the HezziNazi's can't help themselves, will be different. Israel's seen their game plan.
Yup, Israel sure got its tail kicked.
In what amounts to a piece worthy of The Onion, I just watched a reporterette on BBC World (I'm stuck in an overseas hotel) give a 3 minute Hezobullah propaganda report from Lebanon. As she shuffled through mountains of debris, charred remains of Hezbo weapons, showed Lebanese refugees crossing makeshift bridges because every bridge in Lebanon is a smoking ruin, she stated repeatedly why this was clearly a victory for Hezbollah. I'd swear I was watching Monty Python. As she stood next to an abandoned Hezoballah ordinance position...located in the center of an apartment complex...she demanded to know how the international community could justify the Israeli bombing. The good news was her report was so blatantly ironic it didn't even pass as useful propaganda. It was like watching a Baghdad Bob performance with an M-1 tank resting its cannon on his podium.
I think even BBC must have realized their report was a little unbelievable, so they followed it up with two clips of very credible sources to buttress their own reporters accusations. The first was a bit of Mike Wallace's interview with the Iranian President, and the second was with Seymour Hersch.
Well done BBC. You have almost surpassed CNN International on the left wing, lying, whacko anti-American BS scale.
Israel has made it abundantly clear that there is no appetite (including Likud it appears) in Israel to enter into another protracted occupation of southern Lebanon.
So there has to be an endgame for this action, one in which another force replaces the IDF in southern Lebanon.
The Lebanese government is too weak and intimidated by Hezbollah to exert effective control over the area. So that even if Israel were to completely push Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon, once the IDF withdraws back to Israel, Hezbollah will simply move back in and build up again. Worst case, the Syrian army moves back in with it, or Hezbollah is strengthened with even more Revolutionary Guards and advanced weapons from Iran.
So, since Israel is unwilling to occupy southern Lebanon, and the Lebanese government is incapable and unwilling to push Hezbollah out, then the best Israel can hope for is for a stronger, larger international force of some kind to be placed there when Israel inevitably withdraws and to try to persuade that force to use robust rules of engagement against Hezbollah. It's better than the only alternative, which is to leave a vacuum into which Hezbollah and its allies move back in, probably strengthened in the long run.
The best that Israel can hope for in terms of the composition of this force is Europeans. It may or may not turn out to be effective, but one thing we know with certainty (from Rwanda, Somalia and everywhere else there have been international forces) is that non-European forces will ABSOLUTELY not be effective.
So Israel needs the Europeans, and it needs the US to help persuade the Europeans to fill this role. And Israel needs to plan and conduct its operation with the endgame in mind.
Having said that, nevertheless it was clear Bush was willing to give Israel as much room as it would make use of. The ideal solution from the Bush administration's point of view would have been for Israel to simply wipe out the Hebollah terrorists in a strong, aggressive offensive.
Bush has made abundantly clear in past circumstances that he understands one truth very well: that the political cost in a situation like this is already paid when Israel conducts any operation against southern Lebanon, whether a kinder gentler slow operation or a bold aggressive operation. The political price for 1 Qana is the same as for 5 Qanas. I'm not sure Olmert understands this. In fact, the slower things move the more time the international media/lefists/arab propaganda can get world opinion mobilized and pressure to bear against Israel and the US.
Now, Bush knows it is not for the US to decide whether the Israelis undertake a bold move or a more limited operation, and this decision was Olmert's. The Israeli government bears the responsibilities for Israeli casualties, and if the Israeli government does not want to risk casualties with a quick, aggressive operation, fine that is their decision to make. But if Israel does not make effective use of US support for an action against Hezbollah, things will inevitably move to the endgame, and Israel has a critical interest in how that is negotiated.
Ping!
Semper Fi
I can agree with you about Israel being responsible for its own actions. What concerns me is the UN resolution sponsored in part by the US. If what happens is the continuation of UNIFIL, the UN "peacekeeping" farce which has been in place since 1978 then it is back to square one. The Israelis will watch as Hez'bollah once again rebuilds in Southern Lebanon.
This resolution is a mere band aid. The UN will gouge the US for billions of more dollars, Hez'bollah will rebuild, courtesy of Iran while claiming they won.
"During the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom, US troops encountered an unanticipated, and formidable, weapon in the Iraqi arsenal -- Russian-built Kornet antitank missiles. Iraqi soldiers used the wire-guided missile system against American tanks, ==
Kornet isn't waire guided but laser. It is Sagget which is wire guided the very old ATGM produced by Soviets.
Russia did sell nothing to Iraq. But she sold lot to Syria and Iran in previous years.
Time to quit PC fighting?
140,000 troops in Iraq bravely fighting terrorists face to face day after day.
60,000 troops in Afghanistan doing the same.
Leading the charge against Iran until all diplomatic options have been exhausted.
Vetoed a UN vote on Israel regarding the war and continued to stand by our ally.
Yes, you are so right, shame on us.
You are right, I deserved this post. Thanks for reminding me.
/and not being sarcastic either
They're not Ollie North's are they, the missiles?
"Written underneath a contract number on each casing were the words: "Customer: Ministry of Defence of Syria. Supplier: KBP, Tula, Russia." "
What part of "Russians are genocidal _ssholes do you not understand?
Russia and Syria and Iran are about to start WWIII and you keep making excuses for them.
"What part of "Russians are genocidal _ssholes do you not understand?
Russia and Syria and Iran are about to start WWIII and you keep making excuses for them."
Thanks for proving my point. That being Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian arms dealers don't give a toss about who they sell arms to. You, on the otherhand, only blame Russians.
BTW, the genocide of which you speak was designed by Kaganovich - a Ukrainian Jew, ordered by Stalin - a Georgian, and carried out by members of just about every ethnic group in the Soviet Union.
You refuse to condemn the Soviet crimes as Soviet - instead prefer to label Russians only as the evil ones. This dovetails nicely with your refusals to condemn the Ukrainian nationalists who allied themselves with the Nazis and killed Poles and Jews in Western Ukraine, and killed Americans in the US during WWII. Plus, you have yet to denounce your group - UNA/UNSO's call for Ukrainian soldiers to kill American soldiers in Iraq.
What I don't understand is how you - a person who has admitted you only joined FR to help the "former" communist Yushenko- still manage to keep your membership on here when you have a long record of disparaging American military members and veterans and at the same time heralding Ukrainian nationalists AND socialists who have called our president and Republicans "morons."
And yet, when provided the opportunity to denounce this Slavic tendency to arm killers, you'd just rather denounce Russians and try to deflect any Ukrainian criticism. The puppet masters continue to pull your strings and you still do your jig.
I'm waiting for your next "condemnation" of American veterans who fought in the Vietnam War while you were out traipsing around the Soviet Union providing them with hard currency. Fraud.
You Ukrainians were complicit in Soviet crimes and are complicit in arming US enemies in the 21st Century (note the phrase "the most SERIOUS BREACH":
""The most serious breach of the united international front against Iraq may be the sale of the $100 million anti-stealth Ukrainian Kolchuga radar to the pariah state two years ago. Taped evidence suggests that president Leonid Kuchma himself instructed the General Director of the Ukrainian arms sales company, UkrSpetzExport, Valery Malev to conclude the deal. Malev died in a mysterious car accident on March 6, three days after his taped conversation with Kuchma surfaced.
The Ukrainians insist that they were preempted by Russian dealers who sold a similar radar system to Iraq - but this is highly unlikely as the Russian system was still in development at the time. the American and British are currently conducting a high-profile investigation in Kyiv."
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