Posted on 08/14/2006 9:03:38 AM PDT by Colofornian
SALT LAKE CITY - An evangelical Christian minister claims he was unlawfully arrested while trying to tape a performance of a Mormon-themed pageant in the Clarkston Cemetery near Logan Friday night.
Joel Kramer, 39, was arrested and booked for disorderly conduct after he told a Cache County sheriff's deputy he was not violating any laws by videotaping the pageant. The pageant depicts the life of Martin Harris, an early disciple of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"These are free pageants, so there's no copyright violation and I'm within my rights to be on public land," Kramer said. "I feel like it was the LDS church influence. That's the reason I was arrested."
Kramer, who claims the entire incident was recorded on video and audio tape, said he was told by a sheriff's deputy the Mormon church had requested Kramer turn off his cameras.
Jail records and an online incident report for the Cache County sheriff's office confirm Kramer's arrest and booking. He posted $280 bail and was released.
No one from the sheriff's office was available to discuss the incident, a deputy said Saturday.
Mormon church spokesman Mike Otterson said he was unaware of what happened. A message left for Donald Jeppesen, who is listed as the information contact for the Clarkston pageant on a church Web site, was not immediately returned. Clarkston is about 160 miles north of Salt Lake City, the home base of the Mormon church.
Kramer is the director of Living Hope Ministries, a non-denominational ministry based in Brigham City, that says its mission is to bring Bible truths specifically to members of the Mormon church.
Kramer has produced several videos, including "The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon" and "DNA vs. The Book of Mormon," which can be watched over the Internet for free or purchased.
He said he tapes the Mormon pageants - he's recorded those in Palmyra, New York and Manti, Utah - and uses sections of the tapes in his evangelizing videos.
At other pageants, Kramer said he's talked with police but has never been arrested.
At the beginning of each pageant, an announcer asks the audience to refrain from taking photographs or video, Kramer said.
"It sounds like law, but it's a request," Kramer said. "It would be like me announcing over a loudspeaker that I would like them not to show the pageant."
Friday night, Kramer said he and three other men from Living Hope Ministries turned off their cameras and tried to reason with the sheriff's deputy, especially when told the cemetery amphitheater had been leased by the city to the Mormon church. They also changed locations in the cemetery, moving farther away from the amphitheater, but Kramer was still arrested.
"I told (the officer) you just arrested me for breaking the LDS rules," Kramer said, who added that none in his group went to the pageant to proselytize.
It's unclear if prosecutors will formally charge Kramer with a crime.
who said anything about praying
So, are you implying that this minister "trespassed" upon public property in that he was requested to leave and did not? Then why wasn't he arrested for trespass? (They arrested him for disorderly conduct)
It seems to me he was quietly videotaping an event (I mean how loud are videocams, anyway?) and someone else initiated a distraction.
Can I film a soccer game in the local park?
Right. He "booked" passage to the local jail because he left his credit card at home to pay for the local motel.
Nice twist. Persecute a media rep, and then write it off that it's what he "planned" to do.
Nice superimposing of motives (I'm glad you know what was burning in his bosom).
Thanks for the info. I think if some musician leased land from the Gov't, they would be able to restrict video and audio recording as well. So why not the Mormons?
Yes, but don't film any children. Who knows what evil you may have in mind.
The peaceniks do it all the time at their protests. How often do have you seen Cindy the She-hag get arrested? It's a tried and true tactic to get headlines/free advertizing.
I might be the coach or the father or an opposing coach wanting to scout for next game. Just asked a question taht begged to be asked.
Can I film a soccer game in the local park?
The legal answer to your question is sometimes. If no one asks you not to you can certainly can. If the league or party that rented the field from the city asks you not to or makes an announcement you may not (depends also on the rental contarct with municipality). If you continue to tape after they ask you not to or argue with a cop about it you can get a ride to jail like Kramer. That's the simple part. The tricky part of copyright come later in that even if you legaly film a pickup game in a public park you cannot necessarily use the images of discernible people without violating their "rights to publicity" (Rights to publicity laws vary from state to state. They are particularly harsh in places like California where the Hollywood types have gotten the legislature decades ago to pass strong publicity laws protecting their likeness. So if you see Bono on the sidewalk in NY you can take his picture, but if you put that picture on a t-shirt or poster and you can get sued and if you do you will lose. It is even goofier when the media is involved. They can take his picture and put it on the front page of their tabloid (clearly to draw buyers and make money) but that is protected speech. Copyright, trademark, and publicity can be endlessly complex. This case in Utah is not - Private event (public venue does not make what happens there public domain) so when asked not to film everything afterwards is a no-no.
That's your opinion. Just look at the spiritual progeny of a certain J. Smith. One's on the FBI's Top Ten List. Read the book, UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN and then ask, "Would the hundreds of murder victims described in this book consider LDS (either the 19th century version or current fundamentalist version) as 'harmless'?"
And that doesn't even weigh eternal spiritual considerations.
"That said, his arrest does seem to be an overreach of the church's authority."
That would be true, if the church knew about it.
Apparently, they didn't. This was all on the Police.
"Mormon church spokesman Mike Otterson said he was unaware of what happened. A message left for Donald Jeppesen, who is listed as the information contact for the Clarkston pageant on a church Web site, was not immediately returned."
Someone posted about "Mormon brownshirts".
Someone else observed, "LDS rules Salt Lake City"
Allow me to cite another source: "The State of Utah: America's only theocracy"
I believe the preacher was singled out.
They sell alcohol in SLC so I don't think the LDS has as much influence.
Having someone arrested for taping a public event is pretty suspect behavior for a church though. I guess it would depend on whether children were involved.
Apparently not, that is if the players are Mormons and you're taping them in UT. I guess Mormons have special rights in UT.
AFAIK you can film any of the religious festivals or other events that the Christian churches (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc) put on in public venues without being arrested. My former Baptist church sponsored a pro-life Walk for Life event every summer in which many other churches, both protestant and Catholic, joined us along public highways. Portions of the walk were often videotaped by people we didn't know who drove by as we walked, and by the local TV station camera van for it's evening news program. Nobody ever called the cops to haul them away because we had nothing to hide or to be ashamed of.
What? Are you saying that being LDS didn't even influence its founder in this area?
History of the Church, vol. 6, pg. 111, "Section 1 - Be it ordained by the City Council of Nauvoo, that the Mayor [Joseph Smith] of the city is hereby authorized to sell or give spirits of any quantity as he in his wisdom shall judge to be for the health and comfort, or convenience of such travelers or other persons as shall visit his house from time to time."
There are numerous references in LDS historical books to Joseph Smith drinking beer or wine--enough to show that at least he was not a teetotaler.
So enough spurious comments insinuating that if the LDS were in true control, it'd be banned.
Not spiritually. Contrary to some beliefs being hawked that just about all folks head off to three degrees of salvation, Jesus said somethin' than ran smack counter to that:
"Wide is the road that leads to destruction, and narrow is the way that leads to life." We're talkin' mega freeways here vs. mere footpaths. And Islam isn't the only spiritual Autobahn.
That is extremely misleading and not fair.
You know and it has been publicized that he is not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Anyone who is involved with polygamy are excommunicated.
That is the extent of what the Church can or wants to do with them.
The civil authorities can pursue them if they can get someone to testify. That is not always possible.
So you can drink but you can't videotape Mormons drinking.
OK
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