Posted on 08/14/2006 9:03:38 AM PDT by Colofornian
SALT LAKE CITY - An evangelical Christian minister claims he was unlawfully arrested while trying to tape a performance of a Mormon-themed pageant in the Clarkston Cemetery near Logan Friday night.
Joel Kramer, 39, was arrested and booked for disorderly conduct after he told a Cache County sheriff's deputy he was not violating any laws by videotaping the pageant. The pageant depicts the life of Martin Harris, an early disciple of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
"These are free pageants, so there's no copyright violation and I'm within my rights to be on public land," Kramer said. "I feel like it was the LDS church influence. That's the reason I was arrested."
Kramer, who claims the entire incident was recorded on video and audio tape, said he was told by a sheriff's deputy the Mormon church had requested Kramer turn off his cameras.
Jail records and an online incident report for the Cache County sheriff's office confirm Kramer's arrest and booking. He posted $280 bail and was released.
No one from the sheriff's office was available to discuss the incident, a deputy said Saturday.
Mormon church spokesman Mike Otterson said he was unaware of what happened. A message left for Donald Jeppesen, who is listed as the information contact for the Clarkston pageant on a church Web site, was not immediately returned. Clarkston is about 160 miles north of Salt Lake City, the home base of the Mormon church.
Kramer is the director of Living Hope Ministries, a non-denominational ministry based in Brigham City, that says its mission is to bring Bible truths specifically to members of the Mormon church.
Kramer has produced several videos, including "The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon" and "DNA vs. The Book of Mormon," which can be watched over the Internet for free or purchased.
He said he tapes the Mormon pageants - he's recorded those in Palmyra, New York and Manti, Utah - and uses sections of the tapes in his evangelizing videos.
At other pageants, Kramer said he's talked with police but has never been arrested.
At the beginning of each pageant, an announcer asks the audience to refrain from taking photographs or video, Kramer said.
"It sounds like law, but it's a request," Kramer said. "It would be like me announcing over a loudspeaker that I would like them not to show the pageant."
Friday night, Kramer said he and three other men from Living Hope Ministries turned off their cameras and tried to reason with the sheriff's deputy, especially when told the cemetery amphitheater had been leased by the city to the Mormon church. They also changed locations in the cemetery, moving farther away from the amphitheater, but Kramer was still arrested.
"I told (the officer) you just arrested me for breaking the LDS rules," Kramer said, who added that none in his group went to the pageant to proselytize.
It's unclear if prosecutors will formally charge Kramer with a crime.
That is a very good point.
Another excellent point! I remember when the Stones played University of Oklahoma stadium - we lived three miles away, but it was loud enough that we could have taped it!
IF it was announced that photography and videotaping would not be permitted during the pageant, the minister should have honored that. But the police are way out of line to arrest him, particularly if he was just being singled out (i.e. others were photographing or taping).
True, and if that's the case, there is supposed to be an announcement.
The article said he's using footage from these tapes in videos that he's making. Whether he's selling his videos isn't clear, but I don't think that's a decisive point.
Regarding the privacy question, I know that we have to sign a release when our children participate in events such as Scouts service projects, so that pictures can be used by the news or the Scouts for publicity if they wish. If we don't sign, they can't use our children's pictures.
I don't know if this is a comparable situation (maybe for underage performers?), but that's why I mentioned privacy as an issue.
That massive rustling and crashing sound you hear are youtubers trying to pull out concert videos.
I see (always helps to read the article). Guess it may become a "fair use" question, then.
Another excellent point! I remember when the Stones played University of Oklahoma stadium - we lived three miles away, but it was loud enough that we could have taped it![Tax-chick]
When you're talking about privately owned theaters and stadiums, you are talking about another matter entirely. Property owners have the right to ban such video-taping and to even go beyond that--to confiscate such videos that make it through any initial checkpoints if they are being used to videotape.
Now are y'all honestly telling me that the Cache County Sherriff's Dept. carries w/it the authority to go around and confiscate videocams on public property? Are parts of Utah a police state?
But, as he said, he uses portions of them in his own videos; this seems to be a clear violation of copyright as well as a violation of the rights of any actors in the productions who had not given their releases for the use of their images. I think this would hold even if he distributes the videos free for evangelical purposes rather than selling them. He may not have been sued as yet because the LDS church was unaware of his activities, or because they consider him a trivial nuisance unworthy of the effort.
That said, his arrest does seem to be an overreach of the church's authority.
Beats me. Check the Cache County and State of Utah statutes to see what authority their County Sheriff Departments have in different situations.
That's just pain silly. The non-denominational local expression of the Christian church that I belong to video tapes all its sermons, conferences and events. The Lord's Supper isn't officially videotaped, however, if somebody set up a video camera on a tripod, I don't believe anybody would prevent that. The videos are copied to disk and are available for anybody to purchase.
What do these people have to hide?
Kramer has produced several videos, including "The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon" and "DNA vs. The Book of Mormon," which can be watched over the Internet for free or purchased.
Yet another newspaper article where I feel like I'm only getting half the story.
this guy was a nutcase who helped enable Joseph Smith in his religous scams. There would have to be some serious twisting of history to make a pagent out of this guys life.
True. The Morons own the cops out there. The officer was just following orders from the "leaders."
Only in the book of mormons
My dad was a bigtime Mormon; but he couldn't reveal that.
First of all, I don't think he is using entire productions in these products. Therefore, he is using excerpts which could come under "fair use" clauses in the law (much the way one author cites another, or the news media airing clips on its news shows). These news shows air these clips minus any actor releases. {Although writing comes under different law venues than re-broadcast of images, even Web sites like this one uses other published articles minus any "pre-release" signed by the author or journalist. Why? Because once you put something out into the public channel, it's been deemed for public consumption).
Then, if the police still perceived him as 'copping an attitude' (a nebulous term, I know) he could have been taken for a ride down to the station.
As he already has a history of preaching against the LDS Church, I'd say it's possible that he planned it this way.
As for local reportes getting footage for the evening broadcast, I imagine they would know to ask before turning their cameras on.
Not in Florida it wouldn't be. Back during the last Presidential campaign a bunch of us were picketing a John Kerry rally and the cops eventually told us we had to be a certain distance from the arena in Orlando. This was after the union goons were seemingly seconds from starting a fight with the likes of little old ladies in our group by the goons.
The premise was that the Kerry group had paid to be there so they in effect "owned" it for that night. The cops were very sympathetic to our side but they said that is the law.
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