Posted on 08/01/2006 8:32:42 PM PDT by Flavius
Are you sure it's not BTD? (Boring Teacher Disorder)?
Nope, middle child. :-)
I would have lost a lot of money on that bet!!!!!
What were you interested in? I think your story is interesting.
Just a guess.. ""Wait until your father gets home"", assuming of course they have a known father.. after all else fails.. a Spanking.. :)
We have a soon to be 12-year-old child with ADD. Not ADHD, there has never been any hyperactivity problem with him. And he has never, ever, ever, EVER been a disciplinary problem.
He had a bit of a difficult time in first grade, but made it through. This really started manifesting itself at age 7, in the second grade. Three weeks into the school year, his teacher called us and asked us to come in for a conference. When we came in, the principal of the school was there as well. Being that we send our kids to a private Christian school, we opened this conference with prayer. So we're not talking about the dreaded public school bureaucracy.
Anyway, his teacher, a saint of a woman, started going over the problems our son had been having in detail. The big thing she said was "he's not with me." In short, he was on his own private planet with his own private area code and zip code. He was completely and totally unable to focus in class or stay on task. He would literally, and I mean LITERALLY, get distracted by a fly on the wall. If he heard a siren or something, he'd get up out of his desk and run to the window to see what it was.
His principal related something as well, having sat in as a substitute teacher once in my son's class. He gave the class a phonics test and he said he saw that my son was off in the ozone, it was obvious from the look on his face. And when my son turned in the paper, it was so wrong that it was almost like a dyslexic had done it. The principal, instead of giving my son an F, gave him the test again, and my son stayed focused this time and made 100 on it.
Anyway, at this meeting, my son's teacher read off something with, I think, the 13 signs of ADD. Our son was 13 for 13. There was no pressure put on us to put our child on meds or anything, the teacher and principal said they were just giving us this information because they thought we needed to know it and that they would support us and work with us whatever we decided to do with the info.
After much prayer and discussion ... including discussion with a friend at church who had a son with ADHD who was on Ritalin during his school career, and as an aside there must not be a complete ban on people with that on their medical history being in the military because this fellow, who's in his 20s now, is currently serving in the U.S. Air Force, stationed in Japan, and is crew chief on a fighter plane and is about to make sergeant ... we decided to consult a doctor who specializes in these things. Our son was assessed by this doctor and diagnosed as having ADD, and was put on Ritalin. We were one of those who said we'd die and go to Sheol before we ever put a child of ours on Ritalin, but we decided to go with it. And the difference in our child was immediate and dramatic. Within a week ... the doctor said we'd see results quickly ... our son's teacher was saying "he's with me" and saying that it was like night and day.
Our son has been on meds since then. We took him off Ritalin a few years ago because it was producing facial tics, and he now takes a drug called Strattera. It's a non-schedule drug, you can get 90-day supplies and multiple refills on it. He takes the smallest possible dose for his weight. It's not really as strong as Ritalin, he's liable to have more occasional "zoned out" moments on Strattera, but we are pleased with how he is on this med. We are hoping at some point to wean him off meds and see what happens. We're not quite there yet, but I think it's going to happen.
Basically, my point in posting this every time there's a Ritalin or ADD thread on here is to let people know that you shouldn't make blanket judgments on things unless you've walked in people's shoes. I do think it's probably overdiagnosed. I think there are probably parents out there who put their children on meds simply because they don't want to be bothered by them. I find that reprehensible. But there are legitimate cases where a kid has a problem and meds help. I know. They've helped our son. And we don't regret going that route. He's turned out to be a normal kid in pretty much every way. He's active in church, he's not really an athlete but is into music, has taught himself to play piano and guitar by ear and plays the clarinet in the school band, is very interested in history and geography and science, still struggles a bit in math. And he's never given us one bit of behavioral problems that we couldn't handle. If I had to give 100 reasons why we put our son on meds, behavioral problems and discipline problems would probably be No. 1000 on the list because they're non-existent. He simply was unable to focus on any classroom task at hand. The meds have helped him there and we're hoping and praying that maturity will eventually make them unnecessary.
He's a sweet, nice kid who can be very shy, too. (Lately, he's been getting pushed around by other kids). He's just easily distracted and excitable. Not a great combination of qualities these days when there's such a rush to diagnose kids with whatever the latest "disorder" is.
That was my baby girl I was talking about. I was in my organic gardener, La Leche League stage. I thought about what I was eating/drinking and didn't have any exposures I could locate. Gave up caffeine (and milk in the coffee) before she was born, because she'd kick me for hours. Goofed once and drank a "real" cup of coffee - we were up till 3 or 4 with a very unhappy girl.
We never medicated her for the ADHD, because she was happy, everyone loved her, and she made A's and B's. Found out later that she was mad because she couldn't be a crossing guard as long as she made "U"'s in conduct, but I didn't know it then.
A couple of things, because I went too long in the other post ... what my son's teachers have done since he was diagnosed is, instead of giving him a stack of papers like they might do with another kid, they give him only one at a time. He tends to focus better that way. Also, I mentioned that our kid struggles a bit in math. Our school uses Saxon Math in which the kids get a whole bunch of equations on a sheet to do within a specific time. Our son would see this wad of equations and just zone out. My wife came up with an idea and the teachers were happy to work with us on it, she took an 8x11.5 card and cut a slot into it where you could only see one row of equations at a time. Seeing only one row at a time helped keep our son from zoning out from seeing all those numbers at once.
Again, it's taken constant work, both with him at home and in pretty much regular consultations and conferences with our son's teachers, we make sure that we're a presence at school and we talk with his teachers regularly ... school starts next week, so we've got to begin the process again with some new folks ... and we make sure that they know to let us know sooner rather than later if he's having any problems, so we deal with them. I repeat, meds aren't a cure-all, especially if you're wanting to really do right by your kid.
Good for you for speaking up. You're helping more than the people who respond on this thread.
One of the biggest risks of ADHD is self medication with other (illicit) drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. I think this is one of the proofs that the disorder exists.
>>>But IMHO the main reason is poor diet and too much sugar! You don't know how much sugar we consume until you try the Atkin's diet and check the carbohydrate amount on the package. This parallels the epidemic of obesity we see everyday.
I agree: too much eating sugar (all the simple carbs which turn into sugar), too much playing inward-focused, shoot-em-up computer games, not getting enough exercise.
It appears as though John has been given a "time out". Or he may be looking for his drug bottle. His vocabulary certainly points to a need of some heavy medication, for his own protection.
Would you prefer "Living with her sperm donor?"
One of the biggest risks of ADHD is self medication with other (illicit) drugs.While I never had an addiction to Alcohol or Drugs, many people with ADHD at some point in their lifetimes do. I know that I have struggled with bad habits in my life, and was able to overcome them with the help (not because of) of pharmacalogical therapy.
Denial that ADHD is a real disorder does a diservice to those people who fit the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-IV, are carefully diagnosed, and could otherwise be treated and overcome their addictions by balancing out their brain chemistry, and fixing whatever is wrong with their brain.
ADHD is still new to people, and I can hardly blame them for being sceptical. How do you know what abnormal feels like if you've only ever been normal? I certainly didn't know. I just lived my life the best I knew how, tried to do the right thing, but I felt I was dammed to keep screwing everything up, and never finishing the things I started.
Some people may feel it's unfair that we can overcome with God's gift of modern medicine. I see it as a blessing, an answer to a lifetime of prayer. I've lived life this long with what I can only describe as limited agency, and now I can appreciate the gift that I have been given that others without this experience may not recognise. Life is not perfect, but with His help, now it is possible.
He simply was unable to focus on any classroom task at hand. The meds have helped him there and we're hoping and praying that maturity will eventually make them unnecessary.I'm so glad to hear these stories. I grew up in a time when ADHD was not so well understood, and school was a big struggle. Like your son I never expressed hyperactivity, but I was very impulsive and distractable.
Fortunately in about 60% of the cases the symptoms go away as children approach adulthood. Unfortunately if the symptoms perisist into adulthood, it's a lifetime condition. Fortunately, we live in a time where there are very good treatments for ADHD. I'm interested in knowing more about how Strattera is working for your son, almost everyone I speak to about Strattera seems to believe that it is a very promising drug.
Don't judge him to harshly, he was being provoked. I'd say the unprovoked comments about my mother being a whore were much more out of line.
I call ADD and ADHD the multimillion dollar medical myth," says Fendelman. "Why are diagnoses of ADD and ADHD on the rise in children -- and even in adults? Because we have invented this catch-all name for what is an adaptive response to our fast-paced, highly stimulating modern world. And what's more, drug companies have created medications to suppress this response so we think we have a solution."
SHE IS SO RIGHT.
You missed my point. The ADD ADHD epidemic is likely an epidemic BUT they are grossly misdiagnosing it. C.A.P.D. isn't CRAP. It is a real condition caused by such things as Childhood Chronic Ear Infections, Sinus Allergies, possible Fevoral seizures, etc. It is actual damage to the sensory processing system. And guess what? Drugs as such except possibly for OTC antihistamines or motion sickness pills won't help it. With this usually Ritalin is counter productive because it is not the same origin as ADD ADHD.
This isn't junk science nor research skewed by Pharmaceutical interest. These people can't prescribe medications. Our technology environment is most likely the source of the so called epidemic going on. Our technology is right on the edge of many persons sensory processing capabilities. When you start overloading the sensory processing system you will see cognitive behavioral problems in kids. The symptoms are very much like ADD ADHD. The kids medical history has to be taken into consideration. C.A.P.D. takes learning environment modifications for the most part. This type of disorder will also likely mean a limited amount of productive study time because concentration is a real problem. But at the same time C.A.P.D. adults can be excellent at such things as technical jobs doing trouble shooting such as electricians etc in cases where the sole objective is solving one problem.
I was misdiagnosed ADD ADHD as a kid and I'm 48 years old. After I started having severe issues with my sensory system 12 years ago I found information that connected it to childhood sinus allergies. I would not simply brush off any kid having problems in learning as nothing. With the technology that now bombards the sensory system there is going to be a continued rise even in adults.
Many persons have it to a certain extent and don't realize it. For example going to Wally World say at 8:00pm. A person after about 10-15 minutes finds themselves becoming more and more agitated and just wanting out. But the person may not realize why. Each shrill every 30 seconds as loud as they can make it "I need a member of management" announcement screamed over the P.A. system is increasing the agitation in customers. Some will actually abandon shopping cart and leave the store sometimes. They just want the heck out of there but they likely don't know why.
The person is thinking let's see I need dog food and {"I Need a member of management"} now where was I again a can of dog food and some light bul {"I need a member of management"} Dog food and ah what was it again??? Each time the mind has to start over. Some people can function through the audio bombardment and some can't. Those who can't become more and more agiated with each interuption. The same person going to Wally World to shop at Midnight will likely get what they came there for due to fewer announcements. You'd think Wally World would understand that their sensory assault is literally costing them company wide millions of dollars a day in sales but they don't. Hand held radios to key employee's would eliminate over 90% of their announcements. Calmer customers and more sales.
You can also see such see it in behavior in such things as even kids watching cartoons. A kid may watch Tom & Jerry and afterward be fine. Put the same kid watching newer cartoons with hi tech special effects and they may start becoming agitated during it or afterward. A cartoon like Lion King for example where a lot of qucking color changes and flashing or strobing occurs can set the kids off or trigger them and many adults don't catch it. Certain newer video games can do it as well.
C.A.P.D. kids and adults also most likely have visual processing issues as well and the same cause and effect responses. Many eye doctors miss such problems. I passed two military entry physicals and I only can use one eye at a time. A good eye doctor will catch it.
These kids or adults may even show Dyslexic symptoms. They will have problems with oral commands especially ones with multiple task. Like this Billy take out the trash, feed the dog, and put your bike away. One maybe two things get done. Any distractions between task 1,2, & 3 interrupts the memory process. Or you tell Billy that and he says HUH? you repeat it again and he says huh? As you are repeating it maybe the third time he says OK yea as if it just sunk in. Well actually it just did. His sensory system just processed the information. Now put Billy in a classroom where a teacher is describing something. Billy although he is smart as a tack is still processing what the teacher said a minute earlier and will miss part of the lesson.
Here is the best example. You take a computer with 1200 MHZ processing speed and 512 MB RAM and you can get more task done faster. You try to get the same results out of a computer with a 460 MHZ processor with 126 MB RAM and what's gonna happen? :>} The Processor crashes right? You have to shut down programs. So does it mean one computer is smarter than the other? No as each one with the same programing can do the same task but one will process it slower but if you are patient and use the programs one at a time you still get the same end results it just takes longer :>}
"I'd say the unprovoked comments about my mother being a whore were much more out of line."
When a Freeper gratuitously attacks another's mother (or wife, daughter, friend, dog, horse) in a vile way, I will not be quiet--especially when it has absolutely nothing to do with the ongoing discussion. That's just cruel ignorance.
As for the Admin Mod...sorry, not taking it back, not knocking it off. I'll do it again, here or where appropriate on another thread. I checked asshole in my thesaurus, and there simply is no synonym--sometimes you just come up with the perfectly apt word. You did not chastise the original bomb thrower, which is what you should have done. If anyone needed a slapdown, it was ConservTexan.
If this means I get thrown off FR today, goodbye and good luck. I had a pretty good run.
I've pinged a lot of people with this reply and may have missed some. Just to say thanks for your input on this serious matter.
Too bad that I couldn't have read some of them more than 30 years ago when my oldest son was exhibiting symptoms listed here.
He was not medicated for any behaviour problems while growing up and did not attend public school as a young child but a Christian school, I am not disparaging Christian schools in any way because I know from personal experience that they are superior academically to public schools.
I took my kids out of the Christian school after a few years primarily because of my oldest boy. Teachers and principal beating his ass every day or making him miss every recess didn't seem to be changing his behaviour.
Though meds were available at the time, no one ever suggested them to me and I doubt that I would have approved that approach then anyway.
My son had continuing problems all through school and after. Problems that grew from anti social, to drugs, alcohol and down right criminal behaviour. He spent a few months in county jail at about age 21.
I had reached the point that when relatives or friends asked me how he was doing all I could come up with was, "well he's alive still and not in prison".
Don't get sad yet, this little story has a happy ending.
He was cured at age 24 with a personal encounter with Jesus Christ. He's 33 now with his own family and is a responsible church going citizen and I couldn't be more proud of him.
I am not suggesting that this is the only method to arrive at success (Though I personaly believe in that method)
I believe that God has given us physicans and drugs to use and that we should avail ourselves with whatever works.
I have two sons and they are both members of this forum, I didn't ping the one I am discussing, I know him and believe that he doesn't want the noteriety or kudos that might come his way.
Praise God he's ok in spite of my efforts.
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