Posted on 07/28/2006 10:51:00 AM PDT by sergey1973
State publishes list of groups it regards as terrorist organization, fails to include Hamas or Hizbullah. Official says movements do not represent threat to Russia.
(Excerpt) Read more at ynetnews.com ...
Sergey, you seem to have forgotten your support for the Chechens, when Russian soldiers were having their heads sawed off.
Gary, please. This is a complete nonsense.
I never supported Chechen Jihadists. Jihadists are Jihadists everywhere and they deserve nothing but a bullet in their head or explosive blown under them.
I said about excessive and unnecessary brutality of the folks like Kadyrov and the Russian Federal forces toward non-combatants, but I never ever supported Chechen Jihadi Separatists-Terrorists or their political aims. My qualms was the tactics toward non-combatants (like revenge kidnappings after Jihadi attacks), but I never objected to the goal of defeating Chechen or other N. Caucasus Jihadists. I'm glad when such thugs like Basayev and others are blown off the face of this earth. So please don't attribute to me something that I never supported.
This is actually OK. The beauty of the Cold War was that Russia could ALWAYS be counted on to do what's in their best interests.
This is just them reverting back to their old modus.
Those organizations DO NOT represent threats to Russia in the least. The Chechens do.
Amongst those voting “Nay” to condemn the terrorists and support Israel were:
Reps John Conyers (D-MI)
John Dingle (D-MI)
Jim McDermott (D-WA)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI)
Pete Stark (D-CA)
Neil Abercrombie (D-HI
Plus, my so called "support" for Chechen Jihadists which was simply criticism of certain Russian tactics toward noncombatants--not the objection to the end goal of destroying Chechen Jihadists--how can it compare with Putin's leadership giving implicit support to Hamas and Hezbollah, like Inviting Hamas rep to Kremlin ?
I'm not the US President, not the Secretary of State or any lower rank American official in charge of the US Foreign policy. I'm just an ordinary private American Citizen of Russian/Ukrainian background concerned about situation in Russia/fmr. USSR.
So how could my criticisms of some Russian tactics in
Chechnya be even compared to Kremlin support to the Islamic terror organizations ? So please, Gary, let's not go to a ludicrous comparison here.
Let's compare apples to apples--not apples to oranges.
I'd rather say, let's not compare flies to elephants (with me being a fly of course -:))).
We (read: Clinton) were idiots and in a way we kinda deserve this snubbing.
Honestly now... how could Russia consider them terrorists... when they do such a lucrative business with their sponsors?!
Not surprised!Russia has its dirty little hands in this with iran and syria.
==These "allies", I fear, will wreck lots and lots of havoc throughout Russia in the days to come, but Putin leadership will continue to insist that Hamas and Hezbollah are not terror groups until they really start to making full-scale Jihad against Russia.
I tend to think these "Muslim" terrorists aren't any more Muslim than Liberation Theologists are Catholic. Everytime I read accounts of those who know/knew certain terrorists that hail from the PLO, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc, I invariable learn that they were secular Muslims who did not pray, ate pork, drank alcohol, went to nudie bars, etc (same goes for the accounts of reformed, ex-terrorists). I tend to think that the modern terrort network is but a continuance of the terror network described in the following:
Terrorists in Muslim Disguise
Inside Story: World Report
August 1994
http://www.worldthreats.com/russia_former_ussr/Terrorists%20In%20Muslim%20Diguise.htm
Now that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is beginning to defeat Israel, it is pulling out one of its most powerful terrorist weapons to finish the surrender process. That weapon is commonly known as "Islamic fundamentalism."
On Monday, July 18 [1994], a powerful car bomb exploded in downtown Buenos Aires, Argentina. The target, a seven-story Jewish community center, was completely destroyed, leaving nearly 100 dead and another 100 wounded.1
Eight days later, another car bomb was detonated—this time at the Israeli embassy in London, England. The embassy and other adjoining buildings suffered damage, and 14 people were injured.2
Authorities in Israel and elsewhere immediately blamed Muslim "extremists" for the terrorist attacks, and specifically named the group Hezballah (meaning "Party of G-d"). For the PLO, this was a convenient dodge allowing it to disclaim responsibility.
But more importantly, the PLO is now using these attacks as an excuse to accelerate the surrender of Israel. The logic is chillingly simple: according to news accounts of the second bombing, British authorities "presumed it to be an attempt to disrupt the peace process," and "Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of Israel... said Islamic extremists were seeking to disrupt the Arab-Israeli reconciliation process."3 Thus peace on any terms must be made quickly with the PLO, lest the "extremists" succeed in stopping the "peace process." The PLO provides the carrot, while "Muslim fundamentalists" provide the stick.
A myth has been engineered in the last several years regarding "Islamic fundamentalism." According to this idea, the PLO and its main factions have become moderate, willing to recognize Israel and negotiate a compromise solution. However, radical Muslims, including Hezballah, Islamic Jihad, the Amal Militia, and Hamas, are said to oppose such compromises violently. Every time these extremists carry out another terrorist attack, Israel is pressured to make more concessions to the PLO.
In reality, this is a classic example of dialectical strategy at work. Writing in Commentary magazine, Jerusalem Post editor David Bar-Illan exposed the clever strategy: "[Israeli] government spokesmen prefer to pretend that the killers are not operatives of the 'moderate' Arafat, supporter of the peace talks, but 'enemies of the peace process,' such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and PLO radicals... The not unreasonable assumption behind this charade is that the public might resent continued talks with proxies of the 'mainstream' PLO in Washington while its gunmen are killing Israelis back home."4
Just as the PLO does not represent palestinian or Arab interests, the "Islamic fundamentalists" are not religious in nature. Rather, all these organizations have been created, supported, and directed by the Communists, operating on orders emanating from Moscow.
The terrorist group Hezballah, and its official sponsor, the government of Iran, provide a case in point.
Because of media distortion, the Ayatollah Khomeini was seen in the west as a fanatic religious leader. But the Iraqi family of the Grand Ayatollah Muhsen Hakim-Tabataba'i, which in the 1960s and 1970s exercised leadership over the Shi'ite movement of Islam, opposed Khomeini so thoroughly that they worked closely with the Shah of Iran. Saddam Hussein, the Soviet-backed dictator of Iraq, murdered the family at his first opportunity, thereby eliminating Shi'ite opposition to Khomeini.5
Khomeini's revolutionary movement was known as "Islamic Marxism," a movement begun from within the Russian Bolshevik Party in 1916.6 During the 1970s, the Soviet Union mobilized its resources to organize a revolution in Iran, with Khomeini as its official leader. Khomeini's brother was serving time in prison as a member of the Tudeh Party—the Communist Party of Iran; Khomeini's intimate advisor, Sadegh Ghothzadeh, was an affiliate of the French and Italian Communist Parties. Soon the Soviets were broadcasting pro-Khomeini propaganda into Iran, while they began publishing a well-funded revolutionary magazine entitled Navid, meaning "Good News." KGB agents working among the 4,000 Soviet personnel in Iran coordinated the protests and riots, and the Tudeh Party, acting on Soviet orders, openly backed the "Islamic" revolution and created a broad coalition of the Left to support Khomeini.7
Moscow also mobilized the PLO to back Khomeini. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, led by self-proclaimed Marxist Leninist George Habash, supplied training and weapons to the Feda'iyin-e Khalq, the Iranian Islamic-Marxist terrorist group that began the revolution to overthrow the Shah. Meanwhile, Yasser Arafat's Fatah organization trained and armed the Mujahedin-e Khalq, another main pillar of Khomeini's revolution, and it trained future members of the Revolutionary Guards of Iran, including the Minister of the Guards later appointed by Khomeini.8
Once Khomeini seized power in Iran, Arafat brought a large delegation of PLO officials into the country, where "he was formally given the Israeli consulate building and, raising the Palestinian flag over it, opened the first PLO office, also appointing a PLO 'ambassador' to Iran."9 The Soviet Union and Communist China have since continued to arm Iran with weapons.
Khomeini immediately created Hezballah as an international terrorist wing of the PLO-trained Revolutionary Guards. Inside Iran, Hezbellah worked closely with Iranian Communist organizations in consolidating the regime's power. The terrorist training camps in Iran have been supervised by Mostafa Chamran Savehi, a follower of Trotskyite Communism who, as a student in Berkeley, California during the 1960s, founded such Islamic-Marxist groups as Red Shi'ism and the Muslim Students' Association of America. The instructors at the Iranian terrorist camps have been Communist experts from North Korea and Syria, as well as Iranians trained by the PLO and the Communist government of Iraq.10
The organizer of Hezballah in Pakistan and Lebanon, Abbas Zamani, was also trained by the PLO and has been identified as a probable agent of the KGB.11 In Lebanon, Hezballah's terrorist mastermind has been Immad Mugniyeh. For years Mugniyeh was a leading member of Yasser Arafat's Force 17, an arm of Fatah. When the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 forced the PLO to leave, Arafat had Mugniyeh and other members of Force 17 switch over to Hezballah, allowing these terrorists to remain in Lebanon. Mugniyeh quickly became the effective head of Hezballah, and has coordinated Hezballah-PLO terrorism to this day. On Arafat's orders, the PLO transfers weapons, money, and terrorist units to Hezballah, while Hezballah has provided intelligence and other logistical support to the PLO—including helping PLO units infiltrate into Lebanon.12
In short, the "Islamic fundamentalists" are not religious at all, but are Communist fronts adopting a Muslim mask.
The "schism" between the PLO and "Islamic fundamentalists" has been staged as a clever ploy to force Israel into surrender. Now that Israel is indeed yielding to its implacable Communist enemies, it is only natural that terrorist attacks on Israeli and Jewish targets are being accelerated worldwide. By blaming the attacks on "extremists" who allegedly oppose the "peace process," the PLO can disavow the terror acts in which it participates, and can maintain an image of moderation for the West. In the face of this intensified pressure, Israel is likely to make concessions even faster than before. Watch for Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin to begin placing the remainder of the strategic West Bank, and even Jerusalem itself, on the bargaining table.
On the other hand, the financing and political pressure for the PLO takeover is coming almost entirely from the United States, and President Clinton is now accelerating the process. If Congress chose to stop the President, Israel could take back the West Bank and Gaza, and could soon destroy the PLO and its allies.
1 Parks, M., Los Angeles Times, "Rabin links Hezbollah to Argentine blast," SF Chronicle, 7-20-94, p. A10. 2 "Israeli embassy in London bombed," SF Chronicle, 7-27-94, pp. A1, A13. 3 Ibid. 4 Bar-Illan, D., "Israel's New Pollyannas," Commentary, Sept. 1993, p. 30. 5 Taheri, A., Holy Terror, Adler & Adler, Bethesda, MD, 1987, p. 163. 6 Ibid., p. 217. 7 Rees, J., "How Jimmy Carter betrayed the Shah," The Review of the News, 2-21-79, pp. 31-48. 8 Alexander, Y. and Sinai, J., Terrorism: The PLO Connection, Crane Russak, New York, 1989, pp. 72-73. 9 Ibid., p. 73. 10 Taheri, Op cit., pp. 77-79, 88-105. 11 Ibid., p. 177; Laffin, J., Holy War: Islam Fights, Grafton Books, London, 1988, p. 79. 12 Livingstone, N.C. and Halevy, D., Inside the PLO, William Morrow & Co., New York, 1990, pp. 267-275
Frankly, I think it's clearly overhead to suggest that Islamists are the newest incarnation of Communists. Communists are against any religion while Islamists always start "In the name of Allah...".
Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qai'da, etc. are certainly religiously motivated and they take inspiration from 1400 Jihad waged by Islam on the non-Muslim world.
Certainly, at one point or the other Communists and Islamists had common interests. A number of the Western Leftists who hate the Western Civilization are supportive of Islamists. Nevertheless, Islamists are Islamists and they have a clearly distinct ideology from the Communist one.
You seem to forget I was the one who kept telling those supporting the Chechens' cause they were allied with al-Qaeda, and I received nothing but mocking from you and others.
"Frankly, I think it's clearly overhead to suggest that Islamists are the newest incarnation of Communists."
The Communists use Islamofascism to forward their marxist agenda. Neither ideology can win as long as their is individual liberty and freedom. It scares the bejeezus out of them.
That's why we have to defeat Americas left at every turn.
Gary, please. I never claimed that Chechen insurgents were anything but Jihadists. I pointed out that Russia employed ex-Islamic thugs like Kadyrovs (father and son) and other things against them, but I don't recall posting anything that supported Chechen Islamist cause. If you have any of my past posts in mind, you are welcome to dig it up and re-post it.
I did criticized Russian govm't approach to Chechen conflict for needlessly brutalizing locals and I stand by those comments, but I have 0 sympathy to any Jihadists, including Chechen ones.
If you have any post in mind where I "mocked" you, feel free to dig it up and I can go over it. If I were wrong, I would admit it.
Good find, GGG.
Well--if you read more on Islam, it's universalist ideology has overlaps with Communism. Permanent revolution till the world is under Communist rule and the Permanent Jihad until the World is under Islamic rule clearly come to mind.
Communism is obviously much younger ideology, but every totalitarian ideologies have common ingredients and that's why they quite often partner with each other to defeat their common enemies.
Thanks. I try.
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