Posted on 07/15/2006 10:54:26 AM PDT by Dark Skies
AS Israel enters the third week of an incursion into the same Gaza Strip it voluntarily evacuated a few months ago, a sense of reality among Arabs is spreading through commentary by Arab pundits, letters to the editor, and political talk shows on Arabic language TV networks.
The new views are stunning both in their maturity and in their realism. The best way I can think of to convey them is in the form of a letter to the Palestinian Arabs from their Arab friends:
Dear Palestinian Arab brethren:The war with Israel is over.
You have lost. Surrender and negotiate to secure a future for your children.
We, your Arab brothers, may say until we are blue in the face that we stand by you, but the wise among you and most of us know that we are moving on, away from the tired old idea of the Palestinian Arab cause and the “eternal struggle” with Israel.
Dear friends, you and your leaders have wasted three generations trying to fight for Palestine, but the truth is the Palestine you could have had in 1948 is much bigger than the one you could have had in 1967, which in turn is much bigger than what you may have to settle for now or in another 10 years. Struggle means less land and more misery and utter loneliness.
At the moment, brothers, you would be lucky to secure a semblance of a state in that Gaza Strip into which you have all crowded, and a small part of the West Bank of the Jordan. It isn’t going to get better. Time is running out even for this much land, so here are some facts, figures, and sound advice, friends.
You hold keys, which you drag out for television interviews, to houses that do not exist or are inhabited by Israelis who have no intention of leaving Jaffa, Haifa, Tel Aviv, or West Jerusalem.
You shoot old guns at modern Israeli tanks and American-made fighter jets, doing virtually no harm to Israel while bringing the wrath of its mighty army down upon you.
You fire ridiculously inept Kassam rockets that cause little destruction and delude yourselves into thinking this is a war of liberation.
Your government, your social institutions, your schools, and your economy are all in ruins.
Your young people are growing up illiterate, ill, and bent on rites of death and suicide, while you, in effect, are living on the kindness of foreigners, including America and the United Nations.
Every day your officials must beg for your daily bread, dependent on relief trucks that carry food and medicine into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, while your criminal Muslim fundamentalist Hamas government continues to fan the flames of a war it can neither fight nor hope to win.
In other words, brothers, you are down, out, and alone in a burnt-out landscape that is shrinking by the day.
What kind of struggle is this? Is it worth waging at all?
More important, what kind of miserable future does it portend for your children, the fourth or fifth generation of the Arab world’s have-nots?
We, your Arab brothers, have moved on.
Those of us who have oil money are busy accumulating wealth and building housing, luxury developments, state-of-the-art universities and schools, and new highways and byways.
Those of us who share borders with Israel, such as Egypt and Jordan, have signed a peace treaty with it and are not going to war for you any time soon.
Those of us who are far away, in places like North Africa and Iraq, frankly could not care less about what happens to you.
Only Syria continues to feed your fantasies that someday it will join you in liberating Palestine, even though a huge chunk of its territory, the entire Golan Heights, was taken by Israel in 1967 and annexed.
The Syrians, my friends, will gladly fight down to the last Palestinian Arab.
Before you got stuck with this Hamas crowd, another cheating, conniving, leader of yours, Yasser Arafat, sold you a rotten bill of goods – more pain, greater corruption, and millions stolen by his relatives – while your children played in the sewers of Gaza.
The war is over. Why not let a new future begin?
Youssef M. Ibrahim is an Egyptian-born American reporter serving for twenty-four years as a senior Middle East regional correspondent for The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, mainly covering political, economic, energy and military issues. Mr. Ibrahim has been based throughout the world, filing hundreds of reports detailing the conflicts and issues between the Middle East and the West.
Interesting CNN or MSNBC interviews with ordinary Palestinians sick of Hezbollah, demanding that they stop violence. They want two states side by side, Israel and Palestine. They hate Hezbollah.
"In other words, brothers, you are down, out, and alone in a burnt-out landscape that is shrinking by the day."
Count on these hate-distorted subhumans never realizing the stark, simple truth of the above until it is too late. He who wilfully hates is blind and has abandoned God.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Hate, negativity, self-pity, anger, fear...bring a person nothing but loss and failure. It is unfathomable that many muslims believe that their hatred of non-muslims can lead to anything positive or productive...or can be the will of THE Creative Force of the universe.
Well said, but Palestinians cannot rationale. They are too angry to see what 'better' means.
That fatwa may come from his colleagues at the NYT. It is just not their attitude at all.
I have several personal friends who are Muslim and would say otherwise. And, on their behalf, I don't appreciate such bigotry.
Bump and bookmark.
All the usual Muslim states lining up with terrorists once again which by now should surprise no one
Well maybe...or maybe not
Arab League declares support for Lebanon, calls on UN to step in (Pigs are flying alert)
Haaretz / AP ^ | 7/16/06
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666460/posts
(snip)
Ministers clash over Hezbollah's legitimacy
Ministers at the meeting traded barbs over whether Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah bore any responsibility for the escalation in violence that followed its capture of two Israeli soldiers.
The Saudi foreign minister appeared to be leading a camp of ministers criticizing the guerrilla group's actions, calling them "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible acts."
"These acts will pull the whole region back to years ago, and we cannot simply accept them," Saudi al-Faisal told his counterparts.
Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.
Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem lashed back al-Faisal, asking "How can we come here to discuss the burning situation in Lebanon while others are making statements criticizing the resistance?"
Moallem emerged as the leader of another camp of ministers defending Hezbollah as carrying out "legitimate acts in line with international resolutions and the UN charter, as acts of resistance," delegates said.
Salloukh, a Shiite close to the mainstream Amal faction as well as the militant Hezbollah, said Arab governments were not doing enough to protest Israel's assault on Lebanon.
"What our Arab brothers have called 'involvement' has only resulted in frustration and bitterness among Arab people," Salloukh told participants at the meeting Saturday.
"If [Arab] governments are not serious and determined... our people will sooner or later take things into their own hands," he said.
(Snip)
Well said.
Of course I might've put it more....forcefully. :-)
Norman Podhoretz Sept. 2004
This is an extremely long read, but well worth the time spent to endeavor for more knowledge. We are in WW 4, and the sooner we wake up to this fact the better off and more secure we will be. To look at world events, and not understand our situation is to have no grasp on reality.
"I have several personal friends who are Muslim and would say otherwise. And, on their behalf, I don't appreciate such bigotry." - Celtjew
"Well said." - Valin
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I am simply mortified. I've been called a bigot, because I've accurately described the deeds of Muslims, and attributed them to ALL MUSLIMS, including those who like your friends, will take offense and slight to any such description, but never, never take a public step to criticize, or condemn, let alone defend the innocents that Muslims routinely brutalize.
So, you're just attacking me "on their behalf". I'm sorry, but I've lost all my Eccumenical spirit over the past five years. I had Muslim friends. I coached some nice Muslim kids. They played with my kids, and their families were great. One of the kids is now a radical Muslim, a Jahadist in training, and now objects to my very existence as a Christian.
Nope, there is no evidence that Islam or it's followers are a "religion of peace", and being offended, or calling me names won't change the historical facts.
You call me a bigot. Fine. I piss on your moderation. I can no longer afford liberals, "moderates", or RINO's like you. You'll get my family killed.
I do not hate Muslims. They hate me, and are willing to put actions to their hate. When they behead innocents, American's and others, or rape and enslave Christians in Africa, they have attacked me. When they swear "death to the Zionists", they have attacked me. When they crashed airliners into buildings on 9/11 to kill Americans, they attacked me. When American Muslims as represented by CAIR attack and condemn everything this country does to defend itself post 9/11, and ignores every Muslim atrocity in the Middle East, they've chosen Islam and hate over America. I have never harmed a Muslim, never said a cross word to one in public, but sincerely I believe not one American Muslim would cry a tear for my family if they were killed by radical Islamists. They wouldn't lift a finger to defend them.
I am not a bigot. I'm white and my wife and kids are not. You called me a bigot to make yourself feel morally superior; it's the typical refuge and vanity of a liberal.
I'd be more than willing to greet Muslims as brothers, fellow American patriots, men who could see beyond the fact that I'm an infidel, men who could respect me and my religion, patriotic men I could trust to "have my back" rather than knife me in the back. But you see, Muslims can lie to infidel's and be blessed by Allah. They will lie to you and to me, will take offense when you call them liars, and excuse an atrocity of any Muslim committed "in Allah's name", and then say "Allah bless him and give him peace". Show me those American Muslims, one million strong, marching in the streets against CAIR, against the radical Muslims, against the "corruption" of their religion. They don't exist, because they could never, ever condemn a fellow Muslim, regardless of how many American heads he's placed on pikes.
You cite your Muslim friends, make platitudes, and then accuse me of bigotry. I speak from experience and history. I will no longer listen to Muslim lies, or the lies of their reflexive defenders. Your own words are meaningless, and your defense of Muslims, culpable.
SFS
I am simply mortified. I've been called a bigot, because I've accurately described the deeds of Muslims, and attributed them to ALL MUSLIMS,
Well then don't make bigoted statements and you won't be called one.
"Any man who judges by the group is a peawit. You take men one at a time. ... There's many a man alive no more value than a dead dog. ...'
Sgt. Kilrain says this in Michael Shaara's The Killer Angels
I'm in this fight until the last dead Muslim, or until they burn the Quran and start over, because Islam will never allow my family to live in safety and peace. You see me as the problem, not the guys who've sworn allegience to Allah, to kill or enslave "Kafirs"; how ironic, and routine.
Stop being an ignorant fool. Educate yourself about those who you would protect. If I took a personal Bible with me to about 24 of the 28 Muslim states, I'd be arrested and imprisoned. NONE OF THE FREEDOM's American Muslims demand exist in the world of Islam. They use those freedoms against us.
I don't hate Muslims because of their religion. I just take a sober, realistic view of what they intend for me and any non-Muslim, and I won't allow it.
I still challenge you to show me the millions of peaceful Muslims, defending the "Kafirs" right to exist apart from Muslim domination. I challenge you to find the millions who will step up to defend, and I mean ACTIVELY defend Israel's right to exist; you'll find few or none.
I'm a bigot?? Then you must be an anti-Semite and anti-Christian bigot yourself, because your Muslim friends hate both.
SFS
Right on---the truth hurts these 'enablers and excusers' Islam is an evil and death ruled religion
History is that when one branch of my family, living in Spain a little over 500 years ago, was given the choice to convert, die, or leave, it was the Muslim Ottoman Empire that welcomed them and as many other Jews who were able to get there. Heck, Sultan Beyazid sent ships to Spain to provide transport for the Jews.
It's only in the past 200 years or so that it's been safer for a non-Christian in a Christian country than a non-Muslim in a Muslim country. It's only in the past fifty years or so that Christian nations have become significantly safer.... And that's only because I'm generous enough not to consider Communist nations Christian.
However, at the same time one branch of my family fled Spain, another Jewish family fled Spain, found refuge in Scotland, and are among my wife's ancestors. The fact that the Christian world was intolerant towards non-Christians did not make all Christians intolerant. No more does the current intolerance in Islam make all Muslims intolerant.
Yes, there are Muslims -- a lot of them these days -- that hate all non-Muslims (and most other Muslims, while they're at it). That does not mean it applies to all Muslims.
You're right that Islam is not religion of peace. It was a stupid thing for the President to say. On the other hand, it is no less a religion of peace than most branches of Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion that does not explicitly demand pacifism from its followers.
Islam is going through no worse a time of bigotry and intolerance than Christianity was half a millennium to a millennium ago.... which is interesting, considering Islam is little more than half a millennium older than Christianity. The problem -- and it's a huge one -- is that state of the art weaponry is a heck of a lot more destructive than the crusaders or inquisition had, which makes it far more dangerous.
Hopefully, the Muslim world will have its reformation and enlightenment -- it can't come too soon. It's not going to happen without strife, but there are people there who could make it happen. Maybe it will even be one of the doctors I work for, the friends I went to grad school with, or the father who helped coach my son's soccer team. And that, rather than large scale destruction is what we should be hoping for, praying for, and trying to encourage.
Only the past 50 years? That's a considerable exageration. Not considering Communist nations Christian?? That'd be simple intellectual honesty.
I'll grant that things have been done by pseudo-Christian nation states in the name of Christ that have no foundation in Christian scriptures. I don't ignore the evil done by people who have called themselves Christians. Then again those who have carried out such atrocities in Christ's name, contrary to popular Hollywood and Leftist myths, probably knew not one verse of Christian scripture. I don't think there's an ideological parallel between the abuses of "Christians" (even the European persecutions of Jews), and the ideological and spiritual foundation of Islam for the atrocities not being done in the name of Allah. As I said, Jihad is hardwired into Islam. Domination by the sword was part of Islam in year 1. There is no such record by Jesus, his Disciples, or followers at least through the 3rd century. The real corruption of Christianity began when Constantine declared Rome a "Christian" empire. From that point on, a political corrution crept in, where merely being Roman meant being "Christian", which by the way, was how Rome coopted other cultures for centuries. There is no such parallel in Christian thought for converting by the sword, for rape, enslavement, or plunder for the sake of "Christ". Did such things happen; certainly, but saying these were Christians committing such things and then drawing an equivalence between the "radical" Muslims today, with recruits trained in hate in the Quran in the Madrassas, it's just one heck of a stretch.
You're right that Islam is not religion of peace. It was a stupid thing for the President to say. On the other hand, it is no less a religion of peace than most branches of Christianity, Judaism, or any other religion that does not explicitly demand pacifism from its followers.
I take strong exception to this. You're saying that only religions which demand absolute pacifism are "religions of peace", which juxtaposed, means that any that do not are as bad as Islam?? That's moral relativism, and without justification. Christian moral and spiritual constructs exist would justify men under arms in police or military capacity, and these do not include justifying torture, beheading, rape, or other atrocities in the name of Christ. Muslims have no such qualms about what they do for Allah. Also, you're ignoring the vast history of Christianity which includes the first Universities, first hospitals, first universal education, systems of Law and Justice based upon Biblical principles, sufferage, and many other virtues which evolved in the Western world which had uniquely Christian roots. Christianity has been a force for good, a force of love in the world historically and today (witness: Franklin Graham's Samaritan's Purse"; and the selfless ministrys of Christian missionaries for centuries), that has no parallel in any part of Islam.
Islam is going through no worse a time of bigotry and intolerance than Christianity was half a millennium to a millennium ago.... which is interesting, considering Islam is little more than half a millennium older than Christianity.
That's fantasy, and belies your bias. If you take the Jewish viewpoint, Christianity predates Islam by 700 years. If you accept the Christian viewpoint, which is historically defensible, Christianity predates Islam by thousands of years. Islam is a cult which first appeared in the seventh century, an assertion which both accurate and historically defensible.
Pre-seventh century Islam is a myth.
Hopefully, the Muslim world will have its reformation and enlightenment -- it can't come too soon. It's not going to happen without strife, but there are people there who could make it happen. Maybe it will even be one of the doctors I work for, the friends I went to grad school with, or the father who helped coach my son's soccer team. And that, rather than large scale destruction is what we should be hoping for, praying for, and trying to encourage.
I take the Christian perspective, and without apology. I too hope for peace for Muslims. However, the atrocities of the 20th century were proceeded by Darwin's theory of evolution, which birthed secular humanism, by Nietzsche's assertion that "god is dead", and centuries before that Machiavelli's "end justifies the means". The men who committed atrocities in the 20th centuries, and now, were animated by deep thought. It's just that their thought was entirely corrupt. Merely "reforming" men's corrupt thoughts will not make them enlightened men of peace. A change must occur in their soul.
I don't think that corrupt men can reform themselves. Only God can change men's heart. The God of the Bible, the God of Jews and Christians is not the same god of Muslims. I don't believe democracy or "reform" will change the hearts of Muslims, but the God of the Bible can, and the vehicle he has chosen to reform men's hearts is redemption through Christ, and spiritual enlightment though the Holy Spirt.
You don't have to believe this, and you and I can live in peace. Muslims do not have to believe as I do, and we can live in peace. However, Muslims won't give me that option. If one of my children gives up their faith and becomes a Muslim, and then has a chance of heart, no Muslim on the face of the earth will allow them to peacefully leave the Muslim faith and return to Christianity. If my seventeen year old daughter is caught unescorted by a faithful Muslim male (and she's been to both Russian and Europe as a missionary), she could well be raped or much worse, in Allah's name.
I just don't seen the capibility of "Muslim reform"; it's not in their "genes". They'd have to toss the Quran. Therefore, I maintain that we need a good offense, as well as a defense. We need to take them at both their word and actions, and not offer "grace" to Muslims who swear allegience to Allah as represented in the Quran. If we do, they will convert us or kills us; they will not "reform".
SFS
Arabs divided on Hezbollah over Israel
AP on Yahoo | 7/18/06 | Donna Abu-Nasr - ap
Posted on 07/18/2006 8:30:28 PM EDT by NormsRevenge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1668152/posts
Dammit! I'm too open-minded to allow anyone else to provoke a thought in me!
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