Posted on 07/07/2006 10:05:17 PM PDT by freedom44
High in the mountains of northwestern Iran, a Christian archaeology expedition has discovered a rock formation that its members say resembles the fabled Noah's ark.
The team discovered the prominent boat-shaped rocks at just over 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) on Mount Suleiman in Iran's Elburz mountain range.
"It looks uncannily like wood," said Robert Cornuke, president of the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute (BASE), the Palmer Lake, Colorado-based group that launched the expedition.
Photos taken by BASE members show a prow-shaped rock outcrop, which the team says resembles petrified wood, emerging from a ridge.
"We have had [cut] thin sections of the rock made, and we can see [wood] cell structures," Cornuke said.
Cornuke acknowledges that it may be hard to prove that this object was Noah's ark. But he says he is fairly convinced that the rock formation was an important place of pilgrimage in the past.
The BASE team has uncovered evidence of an ancient shrine near the outcrop, suggesting that this was an important place to people in the past, Cornuke says.
"We can't claim to have conclusively found the ark, but it does look like the object that the ancients talked about," Cornuke said.
Noah and the Flood
The story of Noah's ark is told in three major world religions: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
The Book of Genesis describes a great flood created by God "to destroy all life under the heavens."
But before the flood, God told Noah, one of his human followers, to build an ark and fill it with two of every species on the Earth.
But this location doesn't fit the description given in Genesis of the ark's passengers journeying from the east to arrive at Mesopotamia.
Cornuke and his team think that Mount Ararat might be a red herring.
"The Bible gives us a compass direction here, and it is not in the direction of Turkey. Instead it points directly towards Iran," Cornuke said.
Pilgrim Shrine?
Using the Book of Genesis and other literary sources, the BASE team journeyed to Iran in July 2005 to climb Mount Suleiman.
They chose Mount Suleiman after reading the notes of 19th-century British explorer A. H. McMahan.
In 1894, after climbing Mount Suleiman, McMahan wrote in his journal, "According to some, Noah's ark alighted here after the deluge."
McMahan also spoke of wood fragments from a shrine at the top of the mountain where unknown people had made pilgrimages to the site.
"We found a shrine and wood fragments at 15,000 feet [4,570 meters] elevation, as described by McMahan," Cornuke said.
Subsequent carbon dating of samples from the shrine showed the wood fragments from the site to be around 500 years old.
Lower on the mountain, expedition members came across the ark-like rock formation, which they estimate to be about 400 feet (122 meters) long.
Rocks From the Sea?
Not everyone is convinced by the BASE team's claims.
Kevin Pickering, a geologist at University College London who specializes in sedimentary rocks, doesn't think that the ark-like rocks are petrified wood.
"The photos appear to show iron-stained sedimentary rocks, probably thin beds of silicified sandstones and shales, which were most likely laid down in a marine environment a long time ago," he said.
Pickering thinks that the BASE team may have mistaken the thin layers in the sediment for wood grain and the more prominent layers as beams of wood.
"The wider layers in the rock are what we call bedding planes," he said.
"They show fracture patterns that we associate with … the Earth processes that caused the rocks to be uplifted to their present height."
The boat-shaped structure can also be explained geologically, says retired British geologist Ian West, who has studied Middle Eastern sediments.
"Iran is famous for its small folds, many of which are the oil traps. Their oval, ark-like shape is classical," he said.
Meanwhile, ancient timber specialist Martin Bridge, of England's Oxford Dendrochronology Laboratory, is doubtful that a wooden structure would have lasted long enough to petrify under ordinary conditions.
"Wood will only survive for thousands of years if it is buried in very wet conditions or remains in an extremely arid environment," he said.
Bible scholars think that Noah built his ark somewhere between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago, making preservation highly unlikely except in extreme environmental conditions.
And even if the wood had petrified, there seems to be little evidence of Noah's carpentry, according to Robert Spicer, a geologist at England's Open University who specializes in the study of petrification.
"What needs to be documented in this case are preserved, human-made joints, such as scarf, mortice and tenon, or even just pegged boards. I see none of this in the pictures. It's all very unconvincing," Spicer said.
Bridge, the Oxford timber specialist, points out that it would also be impossible for a boat to run aground at 13,000 feet.
"If you put all the water in the world together, melting both the ice caps and all the glaciers, you still wouldn't reach anywhere near the top of the mountain," he said.
In response to your original question, oh so long ago.....
Genesis 11:1-2: "Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there".
The "they" in Verse 1 refers to Noah and his sons, whose geneologies are recorded in Chapter 10. Check a map - If they traveled west (from the east) from where the ark landed into Shinar (which is generally recognized as the ancient name for Iraq), then they did not come from Mt. Ararat in Turkey - instead they likely came from the mountains in northern Iran.
Ref. "Lost Mountains of Noah" by Robert Cornuke and David Halbrook. The same author also wrote a book explaining why Mt. Sinai was not the traditional Mt. Sinai but rather a mountain in Saudi Arabia. It all makes sense as he explains it. The "mountains of Ararat" may have been actually been the "mountains of Urartu" which was in northern Iran.
Your reply still shows that you are venomous toward those who have chosen to believe differently than you. You didn't answer the question. Why so full of bitterness?
NASB does.
So I must respectfully disagree that Jesus lost omnipotence.
Then I'm curious as to what you think of Matthew 24:36 which says "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."
Sigh, I'm not calling your mother a bad name, I'm simply pointing out that the noah story is a true story about a pakistani farmer that got washed out to sea on his log raft during a katrina-type hurricane. He expected a river flood, instead he got a STORM SURGE 15 cubits(22 ft)deep. His descendents jazzed it up into a cultural creation myth as an oral tradition, as with all illiterate ancient peoples making up their own origin-myth. So, why do YOU have your NOAH'S ARK day in sunday school as christian americans, and it's really just an old pakistani MYTH? Or fools running around on top of Mt Ararat looking for that same MYTH? Noah's LOG RAFT rotted away on a pakistani beach 7000 years ago....grow up kid, and be numbered amoung the TRUTHERS, not the LIERS.
If you decide to answer my question, I'll be around. Don't waste your time and mine, however, by just reposting your beliefs again.
Bitterness? I sir am a righteous christian and hate LIES even when found in the bible. The noah fable is easily seen as a myth by intelligent people, this is why many otherwise good people are turned off by the whole book, basically throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water. I see now you are not a christian. If you were your heart would sing for joy when you first hear the truth, as Jesus said. The simple TRUTH is that noah was a pakistani farmer who survived a (katrina) hurricane on his log raft. His descendents jazzed this true story into a creation MYTH. So, explain how water 22 feet deep(15 cubits)covers a mountain some 16,000 feet high?
I am a ma'am, not a sir.
There is no one righteous, no not one. (So if you hate lies, then I'm sure you hate the one you told.)
The bible is the word of God. The person who says it is lying is the one who lies.
I have no time for CINOs. You are dismissed.
My point exactly. He failed to mention that the earth is different than it used to be, with the mountains lower. Without mentioning this, his logic is flawed and fossil sea shells or any other evidence of water could not be at this altitude.
"No, my big tough unrelenting questions are exposing this as a fable because you can't answer them."
There is a great deal of scientific exploration of the Bible's stories, INCLUDING Noah's Ark. The stories tend to be borne out with investigation NOT disproved.
"You can't go saying that this event happened as a historical event on one hand, and then retreat into it being a metaphysical event when challenged. You can't have it both ways."
I never did that. YOU interpet it that way perhaps because it serves your ego .("Centeral Scrutiniser"?)by protecting your argument.
"But, maybe if you try typing in all caps, I'll change my mind."
A MIND THAT IS THE SERVANT OF EGO CANNOT CHANGE.
And yet, no one can answer any simple questions, just a bunch of jabber and paesonal attacks.
"And yet, no one can answer any simple questions, just a bunch of jabber and paesonal attacks."
Hence the reason you ask it. That's the point.
Where are the personal attacks on my part?
Here's some more "jabber" for you:
The only reason you would attack the story of Noah is to attack the idea of God.
You call the story a fable. What almighty God worth His salt needs to tell a fable in the first place. The whole point of the Bible is to speak to humankind. What would be the message of the fable, and why couldn't God simply deliver that message? Answer: He does! Anyone, including the clergy who calls anything in the Bible a fable is demonstrating a weak faith.
The creator of Heaven and earth, darkness and light CAN'T POSSIBLY have destroyed all mankind by flooding the earth UNLESS The Centeral Scrutinser can comprehend it?
In order to demonstrate the reletive ignorance and intellectual smallness of mankind let's take God out of things entirely and focus instead upon the Sphinx.
How old is it? Sure, some scientist will be happy to give you a figure but it is only his own guess (perhaps contaminated with his prejiduce)because other equally intelligent and trained scientists will tell you aomething else. And those dates will vary not by hundreds but bu MANY thousands of years.
What was it's ORIGINAL face and who changed it, and anyway how'd all that water damage get on the Sphinx what with it stranded way out there in the desert and all? How many years of constant water flow does it take to produce that much damge on that particular stone? (That last IS an answerable question but it only make things darker and more mysterious)
And you think you have enough facts in hand about this earth to challange anyone with a question about Noah that assumes certain factual understanding, ie: how long ago and mechanisim used?
Unlike Noah and his boat the Sphinx is STILL right there in Egypt, big as life and it's builders and age and history are a dark and bloody mystery.
But Noah you got all figured out, enough to stand and demand? Don't make me laugh!
More jabber.
BTW, if you get a chance, go visit the Spinx, its pretty cool.
"BTW, if you get a chance, go visit the Spinx, its pretty cool."
It'd be mind blowing. Unfortunately that region of the world is warming up just at the present.
Get hold of Twain's "Innocents Abroad" and read his description of the Sphinx (very near the end of the book)he NAILS a universal sense of the thing in one perfect paragraph.
Egypt is safe, I never had any problems over there, just don't act like an ugly tourist.
I'm curious... how is it that you have a Master of Arts degree in Biology?
(courtesy ping to OBoy)
hrmn. interesting: you find it "rude and insulting" for one to note a peculiarity, to request clarification of a peculiarity, and -in asking- to concisely and precisely define a peculiarity.
for one who claims a grounding in science, your reaction strikes me as... peculiar.
Is this the True Noah's Ark or is the one in Turkey the True Noah's Ark?
or is it a hillfort?
or is it shale misidentified as petrified wood?
or...?
I was always taught that to insinuate that someone is not telling the truth when you know nothing about them IS rude. I am a Southern girl, born and bred in NC, and we usually treat other people in a courteous manner, unless they prove themselves unworthy of it. Even in your latest post, you said that I "claim to have a grounding in science" implying that you doubt that I could have a degree in Biology and still believe that God is the Creator of the Universe. Frankly, I think that it is much harder to believe that all of this could have resulted from "chance" and "random mutation".
Perhaps it might help if I were to tell you that I first had a "grounding" in my faith from two wonderful Christian parents. My father was a Presbyterian minister so I do not remember a time when I did not believe in God. Nothing that I have learned since has ever shaken that faith. On the contrary, growing older has only given me the opportunity to witness the miracles that God performs every day. Scientists are taught to be objective and to use their observations about the world around them to formulate hypotheses, test them, and draw their conclusions from the data they have collected. At the same time, they are taught that matters of FAITH are not testable by the scientific method. You either have faith or you don't.
The sad thing is that many who pride themselves on being "too intelligent" to fall for that "religion stuff" fail to see that they are practicing their own religion - secular humanism. Their bias against anyone or anything that puts faith in God before anything else prevents them from receiving the blessings that God is so willing to bestow upon them.
I must stop now and grade papers, but I will remember to include you in my prayers tonight.
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