Posted on 07/05/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by pissant
First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.
Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.
In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.
Questions:
In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".
In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.
So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.
Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.
In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?
In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.
In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.
Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.
Consistent with #9 date.
From the AD:
9. On 06/26/2006, SOI2 was interviewed and explained that on the evening of 3/11/2006, Green and KP1 talked about raping the woman. The woman lived in a home behind the TCP. Green and KP1 had previously been to the residence. Subsequent to the conversation discussing raping the woman, SOI2, SOI3, KP1, and Green went to the home...
Now it may be that subsequent could have meant the next day, but doubtful.
And it says "shortly thereafter" they changed clothes and departed for the house.
But you overlooked a very intriguing tidbit of that same statement (paragraph): Janabi said Abeer was not in school and, like other peasant girls, seldom left the house. But he said that three days before the killings, the Rasheed family was at his house and his cousin was complaining that the American soldiers at the nearby guard post were constantly searching her house. Janabi said the parents believed that the "girl was the target."
If true why were this family's house being searched constantly.
Or
Could this be a misinterpretation of what Janabi meant? Could have been watching the house or were they constantly searching the house?
Please add me to your military ping list on these cases too, if you would.
Your research has been excellent.
TIA.
This is the same Janabi that siad that shots were fired and Iraqi Army were surrounding the house. All I know is that the Iraqi witnesses are horrible liars.
Highly likely, if you read the affidavit and my previous posts.
Will do Polly.
Who was at one time an American Army soldier who served 17 years in the military. Go figure!
In the way you are choosing to piece this together, then yes, it would be likely. But 3 folks talked about 3/11 and one even said he was approached by an iraqi reporting it THAT date. So there is much to dismiss if 3/12 is the murder date.
Does not mean you are wrong, but that the AD is confused.
The army investigators when they went to investigate after the crime was reported.
Yes. One bad apple and a kid. Much different then 5 bad apples and a sixth who "knew" but did not say anything.
Maybe KP1 was such a dominant commanding presence, but we can rest assured that Green was not.
That sounds like you think the Iraqis did it.
No we can't. We have had posts discussing how sometimes the mentally disturb can lead.
Lots of examples around to show that.
That is why we need to wait for the trial to see the evidence both sides present.
You are kidding right? You are pulling my leg, lol! Have you been reading any of the articles that have been posted?
You are on it now.
Was it SOI5's group? Apparently, they were the first US soldiers on the scene after the murders. Or maybe they called in the photographer. But that pesky 3/11 date was the date he claimed.
We do know for a fact that the investigators and at least some of the jabani clan thought it was sectarian violence, which would be the natural inital conclusion.
I have created no hypothesis, and won't be able to until more info comes out. I always am suspicious of the first wave of information, because more often than not, it is wrong.
I do know that the MSM thought Haditha was a slam dunk for our men being guilty of a massacre. I'm willing to bet now that the Haditha Marines all walk free.
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