Posted on 07/05/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by pissant
First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.
Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.
In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.
Questions:
In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".
In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.
So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.
Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.
In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?
In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.
In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.
Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.
I disagree.
"I have set forth only the facts that I believe are necessary"
that is exactly what he did. He put in the info necessary to get a warrant.
In Cold Blood: Iraqi Tells of Massacre at Farmhouse
He was the first to enter the charred farmhouse where the bodies of his relatives lay strewn about the floor, shot and bludgeoned to death.
And he watched more than three months later as a U.S. Army officer took the two surviving children in his arms, barely able to hold back tears as he told them that the people who had killed their family would be punished.
"Never in my mind could I have imagined such a gruesome sight," Abu Firas Janabi said of the day in March when his cousin, Fakhriya Taha Muhsen; her husband, Kasim Hamza Rasheed; and their two daughters were slain and their farmhouse set ablaze..
(snip)
Janabi said Abeer was not in school and, like other peasant girls, seldom left the house. But he said that three days before the killings, the Rasheed family was at his house and his cousin was complaining that the American soldiers at the nearby guard post were constantly searching her house. Janabi said the parents believed that the "girl was the target."
(snip)
Janabi said he suspected the Americans because the dozens of shots fired would have been heard by U.S. troops at the nearby checkpoint. And from what he could gather, the killers were at the house for more than two hours, too long for them to have gone unnoticed by the Americans.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-rape6jul06,1,2904626.story?page=2
And from All Headline News via the WaPost:
U.S. Troops Reportedly Made Advances To Slain Iraqi Woman
The Washington Post quotes Omar Janabi, a neighbor of the family, saying he had learned from the mother of the 15-year-old that U.S. troops had been making advances to her.
A U.S. military official in Baghdad told Reuters the incident reported by The Post was not the one investigated by the military. While the military says the rape victim was a 20-year-old, The Post quotes the victim was only 15.
Yes, my take from the articles that I have read is that there are mainly Sunnis in al-Mulmudhiya, some with the same last name, belonging to the same tribe although unrelated.
I believe that it is the Washington Post article where it is reported that the jounalist interviewed 2 men with the same name in al-Mulmudhiya, but the 2 were not related.
One has to also take into consideration the multitude of American newspaper writers that are interpreting this story in the safety of their own stateside office, etc., and not providing info gathered from a face to face interviews.
Remember Jayson Blair? Well combine the American Jayson Blairs and the writers of the Iraqi Resistance Reports and what is it that you get?
In Cold Blood:
I wonder where/how the author came up with that!
Also from the LA Times:
"We found out when someone spilled their guts," said a U.S. military official with knowledge of the inquiry, which is being conducted by the Army Criminal Investigation Command under orders from Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division.
"There is a lot of heat on the leadership," the official said. "This is the last thing we need."
The Army official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing, said the soldiers in the unit were in a "combat stress debriefing" a week after the kidnapping incident to deal with any psychological issues stemming from it. At the session, the official said, a soldier told his superiors that he had heard of other members in the unit who were involved in the rape of a woman and the killing of three others.
The investigation turned up another witness, who said he had heard the same account and added that the soldiers involved were seen with blood on their uniforms.
Military investigators now believe that two soldiers raped the woman and that one of them killed her and three other people — two adults and a child — in the house.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraq1jul01,0,6570143,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines
I highlighted the sentence about the girl seldom leaving home, because it is in direct conflict with another version that said she had to cross the checkpoint everyday.
I still have a hard time believing that 5 soldiers would conspire to do this, I really do.
Ex-soldier pleads not guilty in Iraq crimes
ELIZABETH DUNBAR
Associated Press
LOUISVILLE, Ky. - A former Army private charged with raping an Iraqi woman and killing her and her family entered a plea of not guilty through his public defenders Thursday.
Steven D. Green also waived a detention hearing and a preliminary hearing, and agreed that his case would be prosecuted in the Western District of Kentucky.
U.S. Magistrate Judge James Moyer set an arraignment date of Aug. 8 in Paducah for Green, who was arrested Friday by FBI agents in Marion, N.C. Green appeared in baggy shorts and flip-flops, and was wearing the same Johnny Cash T-shirt he wore to a hearing Monday in Charlotte, N.C.
Green answered Moyer's questions about his inability to pay for an attorney, saying he has about $6,000 in a checking account and owns a 1995 Lincoln Town Car.
"I don't have anything else," he told the judge.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Brian Butler said the case would be presented before a grand jury sometime in mid-July, probably in Paducah. Butler and Assistant U.S. Attorney Marisa Ford declined to comment on where Green would be held before his arraignment.
Green, who served 11 months with the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., received an honorable discharge and left the army in mid-May. He was discharged because of an "anti-social personality disorder," according to military officials and court documents.
A psychiatric condition, anti-social personality disorder is defined as chronic behavior that manipulates, exploits or violates the rights of others. Someone with the disorder may break the law repeatedly, lie, get in fights and show a lack of remorse.
According to a federal affidavit, Green and other soldiers targeted the Iraqi young woman after spotting her at a traffic checkpoint near Mahmoudiya. Green is being tried in federal rather than military court because he no longer is in the Army.
Army Criminal Investigation Command agents have turned over the evidence that they had obtained against Green to federal law enforcement officials for their use.
Military officials concluded Thursday that since Green had received his final discharge papers, he was no longer under the control of the Army and would not be subject to a court martial.
No other soldiers have been charged yet in the case.
On Thursday, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. George W. Casey, and U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, said the investigation would be pursued in a "vigorous and open process."
"Coalition forces came to Iraq to protect the rights and freedoms of the Iraqi people, to defend democratic values, and to uphold human dignity. As such, we will face every situation honestly and openly, and we will leave no stone unturned in pursuit of the facts," the statement said.
"We will hold our service members accountable if they are found guilty of misconduct in a court of law," it added.
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14980824.htm
Matching perfectly with Omar Janabi's version you posted earlier:
"At 2pm a force of Americans raided the home of the martyr Qasim, God rest his soul. They surrounded him and I heard the sound of gunfire. Then the gunfire fell silent. An hour later I saw clouds of smoke rising from the room and then the occupation troops came quickly out of the house. They surrounded the area together with Shi‘i ‘Iraqi National Guard’ forces, and they told us that terrorists from al-Qa‘idah had entered the house and killed them all"
Every day? I didn't see that.
I still have a hard time believing that 5 soldiers would conspire to do this, I really do.
In WWII, soldiers conspired to kill millions.
But despite the differences in versions, both Jabani's say it happened at 2:00 in the afternoon on March 12.
Which does not match the affidavit that states the US men were drinking on the evening of the 11th, put on dark clothes to "not be seen".
Or SOI5's story of an Iraqi man coming to inform him on the 11th that a house was burning and that within an hour he and Iraqi soldiers were on the site.
A HUGE question to me is: Who took the photos??? and when?
Weird comment.
Wierd Thread
This will eventually be cleared up in trial.
I also posted an article (snippet) above where the military clarifys that it happened on the 12th.
Ever heard of John Mohammed and Lee Malvo? Who woulda thunk it!
As pretty as she was young, the girl had attracted the unwelcome attention of U.S. soldiers manning a checkpoint that the girl passed through almost daily in their neighborhood in the south-central city of Mahmoudiya, her mother told the neighbor.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0607040216jul04,1,7950507.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
Questions about the Affidavit against Pvt. Green (Iraqi Rape/Murder case)
March 11 is no typo.
In AD utem #9, SOI2 says it happened on the evening of 3/11.
In AD item #11, SOI3 says they were drinking on the 11th.
In AD item #12, SOI5 says an iraqi national approached him on 3/11 to inform him of the incident.
Not suprising. I imagine KP1 will be claiming not guilty soon as well.
And that is one mooslim psycho and a 16 year old protege.
I said earlier, 2 people, I would understand. 5, I don't. Not US soldiers.
What is "it"? #9 only dates the talk prior to the murders.
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