Posted on 07/05/2006 3:33:11 PM PDT by pissant
First off, the information in the Affidavit and the MSM regarding this incident in Muhmudiyah does not look good for Steven Green or his alleged conspirators. If he or they are guilty of this crime, then I pray that the Military comes down on them like a ton bricks. The description of what happened is beyond disgusting and evil.
Having said that, I will continue to give the benefit of the doubt to Steven Green and the others, until they confess in a military court or are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So in the interim, I will try to do my best, like on the Haditha case, to poke holes in allegations, and to publicize the work of others doing the same thing.
In regards to the affidavit (AD) used to charge Steven Green, I have a couple of questions/observations. You can click on the URL above to see the affidavit.
Questions:
In Item #5 in the AD, the CID investigation states that 3 men approached checkpoint 1 (TCP#1) on 3/12/2006 at 5:30 PM and reported that a family had been killed in their house and that it was believed to have been done by Anti Iraq forces or "others".
In Item #12, SOI5 (source of information) says that on 3/11/2006 an Iraqi approached him and told him the house had been burned. The Iraqi said four were dead and one had been raped. An HOUR later, Iraqi army personnel and four US soldiers, including SOI5, went to the scene and presumably took the photos.
So did the event happen on 3/11 or 3/12? If SOI5 is correct, then the bodies would have been in the morgue by 3/12 and a 3/11 report would have been discovered by the CID.
Item #6 says that during a combat stress debriefing on 6/20/06 it was determined that these members of the 4th Infantry division commited this crime. Yet all the previous reports say that two guys were debriefed, neither an eyewitness. One said that he overheard guys talking about it, and another said that he heard that the guys burned their clothes. And it was not until 6/24/06 that the invistigation from CIS started. Therefore Item 6 is factually wrong to say it was "determined" on 6/20/06 that our men did this.
In Item #8, SOI1 says SOI2 and KP1 (known participant) changed clothes before heading to the house. Then he says that SOI2, SOI3, SG and KP1 all burned their clothes when they got back. First, SOI3 supposedly stayed guard at the door fo the house, so why would he burn his clothes? And if he was in uniform, would he really burn his uniform at a checkpoint and stand there in his skivvies? 2nd, was SOI1 really dumb enough to man the checkpoint by himself while these guys went raping and pillaging, especially since one of the M4s they took belonged to SOI1?
In Item #10, SOI2 states "Green went into the bedroom to keep the rest of the family there" and that "KP1 threw a woman to the floor". After Green killed the family, SOI2 states that he witnessed "Green and KP1 rape the woamn that SOI3 had thrown to the floor". So who threw the rape victim to the floor?? SOI3 was supposedly standing guard outside the house.
In Item #11, SOI3 says that SOI2 ordered him to toss the AK-47 used by Green into the canal. SOI2 does not mention (items #9 and #10) that he asked SOI3 to get rid of AK-47.
Item #13 is the photo evidence. If this photo evidence was taken 3/11/06 by the Iraqi and US soldiers that went to investigate per item #12 (SOI5's version) then something is terribly amiss about the timing of this story.
Janabi needs to get his story straight. And what about the two children that said they were the ones to discover the bodies?
And then you have the Tawa character that said he and other family went and saw the bodies.
And then you have no mention of burning the girls body in the SOI's "confessions".
Something is amiss.
All true, in theory, yet he was not at the house to see what actually transpired.
Also, read TexKats post 157.
It is stated that the photos (of the burned body) corroborate the testimonies of the SOI's.
It's an affidavit for obtaining an arrest warrant. They never put their whole case into it. As it says, it contains the MINIMUM info neccessary to get the warrant against SG and SG only.
Nobody saw Peterson kill his wife - where is he now?
Nobody saw Wetherfiedl kill that little girl - where is he now.
He has testified much more to the crime than any witness did in the above.
I think you should step back and see what you are saying.
You have NO idea what is in the testimony other than what they put in the affidavit.
OTOH, the affidavit says that the photos (of the burned body) corroborate the testimonies of the SOI's.
No the statement regarding the photos reads:
"These photos also depict the burned body of what appears to be a woman..."
It does not necessarily follow that the statement about the woman also corroborates the sworn testimony. In fact, I bet it doesn't.
I'm not saying his testimony would be useless, just useless regarding what transpired at the house. Only the other four involved can clarify that, unless he was listening on the radio what transpired.
What I said was accurate. It may or may not mean much in the end.
LOLITA C. BALDOR Associated Press
WASHINGTON - The former Army private charged with raping an Iraqi woman and killing her family will all but certainly be tried in the federal court system, not through a military court martial, a senior Army official said Thursday.
Steven D. Green, who was arrested Friday by FBI agents in Marion, N.C., has received his final discharge papers from the Army and therefore it appears he no longer has any ties to the military, said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.
Green is being held in Charlotte without bond pending an arraignment hearing Monday. He was to be transported Thursday from North Carolina, where he was arrested, to Louisville, Ky., according to Assistant U.S. Attorney Marisa Ford, chief of the criminal division for the Western District of Kentucky.
Army officials had been checking Green's status to determine whether he had received his final pay and whether he was eligible for re-enlistment as a limited reservist. The Army official said Green received his final discharge papers and would be considered "no longer a soldier."
According to the law, if he no longer has any ties to the military, he has to be tried in the federal district court.
Green, who served 11 months with the 101st Airborne Division, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., received an honorable discharge and left the army in mid-May, before the incident came to light. He was discharged because of an "anti-social personality disorder," according to military officials and court documents.
What court document said "anti-social behavior"? I don't recall any.
What I said was accurate.
Only if you have seen their confessions. I haven't.
I didn't see "anti-social" in the #169 you replied to.
correction. I didn't see "behavior".
I believe his discharge status was in the affidavit.
pissant are you being a stickler for precise wording?
anti-social behavior - Anti-social behaviour is that lacking in judgement and consideration for others, ranging from careless negligence to deliberately damaging activity, vandalism and graffiti for example. Someone behaving in an anti-social manner may be a manifestation of an antisocial personality disorder.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Anti-social
I can only base it on what the affidavit says. It is possible that they mentioned the burning and the guy compiling the AD left it out for brevity. It's also possible that other things they said conflicted, and he left those out because he wanted to get a warrant.
We will not know unless the info is released.
Yes, it was described as a personality disorder.
LOL. I was referring to the last line of the AP article claiming court documents mentioned his "anti-social personality disorder". I was wondering which court document it was referring to. The anti-social part was added via a leak to the AP, not the court document.
"The following information is in support of an arrest warrant for GREEN. ... Since this affidavit is being submittied for the purposes of securing an arrest warrant, I have not included each and every fact known to me concerning this investigation. I have set forth only the facts that I believe are necessary to establish probable cause to believe that a violation of Title 18, USC, Section 3261, has been committed by GREEN.
That is correct. Thus, many facts, allegations, and contradictions are left out. It serves the purpose to attain an arrest warrant.
So I readily admit, this is only partial information, but I do not readily admit that what he left out was even more damning or less contradictory. Info is cherry picked to provide the strongest possible case for an arrest.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.