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New Accusations against Servicemen: Can the AP be Trusted?
Associated Press ^ | 06/30/06 | Ryan Lenz, Associated Press

Posted on 06/30/2006 12:25:24 PM PDT by 60Gunner

BEIJI, Iraq - Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly raping a young woman, then killing her and three members of her family in Iraq, a U.S. military official said Friday.

The soldiers also allegedly burned the body of the woman they are accused of assaulting in the March incident, the official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

The U.S. command issued a sparse statement, saying Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of coalition troops in Baghdad, had ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged killing of a family of four in Mahmoudiyah, south of Baghdad. The statement had no other details.

The case represents the latest allegations against U.S. soldiers stemming from the deaths of Iraqis. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.

The United States also is investigating allegations that two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians were killed by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha on Nov. 19 in a revenge attack after one of their own died in a roadside bombing.

"The entire investigation will encompass everything that could have happened that evening. We're not releasing any specifics of an ongoing investigation," military spokesman Maj. Todd Breasseale said of the Mahmoudiyah allegations.

"There is no indication what led soldiers to this home. The investigation just cracked open. We're just beginning to dig into the details."

However, a U.S. official close to the investigation said at least one of the soldiers, all assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment, has admitted his role and been arrested. Two soldiers from the same regiment were slain this month when they were kidnapped at a checkpoint near Youssifiyah.

The official told the AP the accused soldiers were from the same platoon as the two slain soldiers. The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded.

The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

One of the accused soldiers already has been discharged and is believed to be in the United States, two U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to Forward Operating Base Mahmoudiyah.

The official said the killings appear to be unrelated to the kidnappings. He said those involved were all below the rank of sergeant.

Senior officers were aware of the family's death but believed it was due to sectarian violence, common in the religiously mixed town, he said.

The killings appeared to have been a "crime of opportunity," the official said. The soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

___

AP correspondent Ryan Lenz is embedded with the 101st Airborne Division in Beiji, Iraq. He was previously embedded with the 502nd Infantry Regiment in Mahmoudiyah.

__

The Associated Press News and Information Research Center contributed to this report.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; ap; apbias; assininepress; axissally; bullzogby; credibility; doublestandard; drivebymedia; iraqwar; lordhawhaw; media; rumor; thebiglie; usservicemen
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To: 60Gunner

The AP can't be trusted. I was responding to the title of the article.


41 posted on 06/30/2006 6:03:52 PM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: 60Gunner; All

I can't put my hands on it right now...but if you can find the lyrics to the haji song written by the young Marine that caused such a hub-bub a couple of weeks back...you will notice a striking similarity in the two stories.

Over-hearing a few guys talking about...the lyrics...the story in the song...

Just an idea....


42 posted on 06/30/2006 6:07:17 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: 60Gunner

Fox also reported earlier that a soldier who took part in this came forward and told his CO....guilty conscience......


43 posted on 06/30/2006 6:10:32 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: 60Gunner

Case dismissed


44 posted on 06/30/2006 7:12:29 PM PDT by Kaslin (Bad news for the left..President Bush's plan is working, and the Carl Rove indictment went bye bye)
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To: mystery-ak

Yeah... Lenz wrote the same thing. It breaks this old soldier's heart to think that this could be true.


45 posted on 06/30/2006 7:43:50 PM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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To: 60Gunner

Same here...I pray this is not true....


46 posted on 06/30/2006 7:44:53 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: 60Gunner

No, I don't consider it "just another gossip column."

I'll ask my question again - - would you rather AP not publish stories based on command press releases and quotes from unnamed military officials?


47 posted on 06/30/2006 10:56:19 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: combat_boots

That's not the title of the article.


48 posted on 06/30/2006 10:58:06 PM PDT by leadpenny
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Updated

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060701/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

GIs eyed in alleged rape, murders in Iraq
By RYAN LENZ, Associated Press Writer
27 minutes ago



BEIJI, Iraq - A group of American soldiers in an insurgent-riddled town allegedly noticed a young Iraqi woman when on patrol and later returned to rape her, according to U.S. officials Friday. In an apparent cover-up attempt, she and three members of her family then were killed and her body was set on fire.

Five U.S. troops are being investigated, a U.S. military official told The Associated Press.

It is the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.

The suspects in the killing, which took place in March, were from the same platoon as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad this month, said the official, who is close to the investigation and spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the U.S. official said. The official said the rape and killings appear to have been a "crime of opportunity," noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child, said a senior Army official who also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Some of the suspects allegedly burned the woman's body to cover up the attack, the U.S. official said.

In Baghdad, the U.S. military issued a sparse statement, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.

However, the U.S. official said the soldiers were assigned to the 502nd Infantry Regiment. The official told the AP that the suspects were from the same platoon as two slain soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah southwest of Baghdad.

The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

According to the senior Army official, the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.

A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.

Before the soldier disclosed the alleged assault, senior officers had been aware of the family's death but believed it was a result of sectarian violence, the official said.

One of the five suspects has already been discharged for unspecified charges unrelated to the killings and is believed to be in the United States, two U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The others have had their weapons taken away and are confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya.

The allegations of rape could generate a particularly strong backlash in Iraq, a conservative, strongly religious society in which many women will not even shake hands with men who are not close relatives.

The case is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.

Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.

U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.

Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February, and the death of an Iraqi soldier after an interrogation in 2003 at a detention camp in Qaim.

The allegations have aroused public anger against the U.S. military presence at a time when the new Iraqi government and U.S. authorities are trying to reach out to disaffected Sunni Arabs to quell the insurgency and calm sectarian tensions.

On Saturday, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki leaves for a whirlwind trip to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates to seek support for his national reconciliation initiative, which includes an amnesty for the mostly Sunni insurgents.

Al-Maliki is also expected to brief the Sunni leadership of those three countries on his efforts to deal with the divisions between Shiites and Sunnis. Iraq's neighbors in the Persian Gulf fear sectarian tensions will spill over into their countries, which are dominated by Sunnis but have large Shiite minorities.

On Friday, radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr rejected al-Maliki's initiative because it does not include a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S.-led foreign troops.

"We demand the occupation forces to leave the country, or at least a timetable should be set for their withdrawal," al-Sadr said during a sermon.

Despite al-Maliki's efforts, there has been no letup in Iraq's violence. The U.S. military reported four more American service members have died, including a Marine killed Friday in fighting west of Baghdad. Three Army soldiers died in combat the day before, the military said.

___

AP correspondent Ryan Lenz is embedded with the 101st Airborne Division in Beiji, Iraq. He was previously embedded with the 502nd Infantry Regiment in Mahmoudiya. AP correspondent Lolita C. Baldor in Washington contributed to this report.


49 posted on 06/30/2006 11:02:34 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: 60Gunner

Before you continue to bash the socalled "MSM," there is this above the fold, front page story in "The Washington Times" this morning. I just got it off the driveway:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060630-112511-1042r.htm

Army probes Iraq family deaths
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
July 1, 2006


The Army has opened a criminal investigation into charges that soldiers murdered an Iraqi family south of Baghdad last month, marking the fourth such ongoing probe of American personnel in the war.

At the Pentagon, a top U.S. commander in Baghdad said yesterday that attacks have gone up, not down, since new Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered a citywide crackdown.

Army Col. Jeffrey J. Snow, a brigade commander in the 10th Mountain Division, also openly worried that negative press coverage of the war will sap the American public's support for the troops.

"I think sometimes we just focus a little bit too much attention to, you know, [improvised explosive devices], and kidnappings and murders," Col. Snow said.

The command in Baghdad said Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, who heads all forces in and around Baghdad, had asked the Army Criminal Investigative Division to probe whether five soldiers were involved in killing an Iraqi family of four in the town of Mahmoudiyah, in the so-called Triangle of Death.

The probe follows the brutal killings by insurgents in the area of two Army soldiers who belonged to the same platoon as those now being investigated in connection with murder.

~snip






50 posted on 07/01/2006 3:07:54 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
My answer to your question is "yes." I would rather the AP NOT publish a story if they are unable or unwilling to verify this story- especially when it involves a capital crime in a zone of operations. I personally think that the practice of releasing unverifiable information during an ongoing investigation is irresponsible and an indication of that reporter's desire to get his name on a big story. If he could not release it without providing verifiable sources, he should not have released the story. And on that note, I would like to know exactly what the AP Washington office "contributed" to the story. How much of this is really from Lenz, and how much was padding? As I said before, I am trying to look at this issue critically and carefully. I am not defending the indefensible. If these troops committed thes crimes, then they deserve to hang for them. But until they have proven guilty in a court-martial, they have the same rights to the presumtion of innocence as anyone else. But I find it curious that all of these atrocity stories have been clumped together in a limited time frame. There were "eyewitness" accounts of the Haditha massacre as well. Furthermore, the USMC is already treating the 7 Marines and 1 Navy Corpsman as if they were guilty of murder, and they have not even been tried yet. They have been clapped into irons, charged for their ride home, charged for the replacement boots they received when their original boots were confiscated at the brig... The press is largely to blame for the military's overreaction when serveicemen are accused of crimes- whether the accusations are founded or not. Remember Lt. Pantano?
51 posted on 07/01/2006 11:17:55 AM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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To: 60Gunner

Ask yourself a simple question - - why would this command or any command issue a press release on the subject? So the various news agencies would sit on the story?

Seems to me like someone needs an extra dose of reality. But, if shooting the messenger makes it all feel better, knock yourself out.


52 posted on 07/01/2006 11:32:24 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
Leadpenny, I take your point. I should not paint the media with a broad brush. However, I still believe that the practice of citing unverifiable sources is sloppy journalism, especially in cases like this. If he cannot provide the source, he should leave it out. But in this case, if he had left out all his unverifiable sources, he would have no story. What does that tell you? It tells me that he very likely saw the desire for a hot story as more valuable than the integrity of an ongoing investigation- or the defense of the accused servicemen.

I don't care if he cited a hundred sources close to the investigation "who spoke on condition of anonymity." If he cannot or will not verify the sources, he might just as well have made them up. We have no way of knowing otherwise, do we?
53 posted on 07/01/2006 11:33:57 AM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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To: 60Gunner

Here's another question: How long would a reporter, especially an embedded reporter, keep any sources in a command if he/she were to violate a non-attribution agreement?

They'd be hung out to dry and the home office would have to bring them home. Not good job security or something they'd want on their resume.


54 posted on 07/01/2006 11:39:52 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
Leadpenny, I am not trying to shoot the messenger. I am trying to think critically about this. As someone who deals with peer-reviewed scientific research, I understand the value of providing verifiable sources. It is the only way that someone within my community can be taken seriously. I know the Army filed the press release. That lends credence to the AP story. I want you to understand that I don't take issue with the fact that this story got out. I do take issue with the fact that Lenz chose to cite unverifiable sources in order to get his story out. Nations have risen and fallen, wars won and lost, and lives preserved or wasted on the quality of the information the public chooses (or is led to) accept. I appreciate your position on this. But the fact remains that Lenz padded his story with unverifiable sources. That's what we in the scientific community call "imbellishment," and such papers are summarily thrown out without further review. If a writer wants to tell me a story that he or she expects me to believe, he or she should at least do me the courtesy of identifying the sources used so I can look at their work and draw my own conclusions. Lenz did not write his piece in a way that allows the reader that right. What Lenz is really saying here is, "The Army is still investigating this case, but I heard from someone that these guys are guilty as hell, and that's what I want you to get out of this." And while I concede that not all writers follow this practice, imbellishment is standard practice among the MSM. Not exclusively so, but standard practice nonetheless. That should compel you to challenge the quality and veracity of the information that you receive from any source. There is nothing wrong with holding the press to a high standard. Millions of Americans rely on the press for information. But historically, the press has fallen pitifully short of the mark. Does that mean that they are all evil? Of course not. Does it make me less inclined to trust them? Absolutely. So questioning the veracity and integrity of any news story- from every source- is perfectly within the scope of my responsibility as a critically-thinking and socially-responsible American if I am to act appropriately and reasonably. I'm not shooting the messenger- I'm decrying the messenger's attempt to lead the reader to an assumption of guilt.
55 posted on 07/01/2006 12:19:22 PM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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To: leadpenny

If the source insists on anonymity, then it should automatically be suspected that the source is speaking inappropriately and should not be interviewed in the first place. He or she is speaking when he or she is not cleared to. In a command structure, that's a punishable offense.

A reporter with any semblance of integrity would not cite a person who would be willing to violate the law (or the UCMJ) in order to give that reporter the dirt on a case. That's not fair to the accused, it's not fair to the service, and it's not fair to the public.


56 posted on 07/01/2006 12:27:46 PM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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To: 60Gunner

I was enjoying and appreciating that read until the very last sentence. I take everything this Lenz feller has said and file it away. I'm not being led nor will I take it as gospel until there is sufficient corroboration from other sources. What is sufficient? I don't know. It's kind of like the definition of pornography - I know it when I see it. Beyond that, Lenz has a reputation to protect, and until he proves himself unreliable, I'll go with what he has reported. I'll bet his superiors see it the same way.

I think you and I are at the glass is half empty/glass is half full stage.


57 posted on 07/01/2006 12:35:51 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: 60Gunner

On another thread I said that the only reason I could think of for the officials to remain anonymous was it may be the only way for the command to speak and not be accused of undue command influence.


58 posted on 07/01/2006 12:39:04 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Petronski
Ryan Lenz of the Associated Press

I think we are seeing things through a faulty Lenz.

59 posted on 07/01/2006 12:43:33 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Proudly Posting Without Reading the Article Since 1999 !!!)
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To: leadpenny
Leadpenny, I am actually enjoying the discussion. I am learning a different perspective, and that's a good thing. I am not hinting that you are easily led- far from it! I apologize if I came off that way. You are presenting some excellent points that have really got me thinking about how I think. That's the essence and challenge of critical thinking. True, we may not agree on this issue. I am looking at it from a scientific standpoint, not a journalistic one. The issue itself is horrific, and I wish it had not arisen. I think we can agree on that. Thank you for your wonderful responses!
60 posted on 07/01/2006 9:35:26 PM PDT by 60Gunner (It takes a liberal to ruin a village...)
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