Church mulls 'phrasing' change for Holy Trinity

The Washington Times ^ | June 20, 2006 | Richard Ostling

[pageonetoo]

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.

Delegates to the national assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted yesterday to "receive" a policy paper on sex-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. Church officials are enabled to propose "experimental liturgies" with "alternative phrasings" for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.

Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," options include:
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love"

"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chairman Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during yesterday's debate on the changes.

The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to send the paper back for further study, which would have killed it.

A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity still should be used, but Presbyterians should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."..

[Ciexyz]

Is there a reason for this nonsense?

Maybe someone is trying to justify their jobs at the highest levels? Maybe we have too much government in the PCUSA?

[Triggerhippie]

Sorry for the delay... I was waaaaaaaaay out of town.

Marshall, Will, and Holly were characters from Land of the Lost. The Saturday morning show from Sid & Marty Krofft from 1974-1976. It was entertaining if you had absolutely nothing better to do (isn't that the way of TV anyway?) on the weekends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_the_Lost_(1974_television_series)

Mainly folks around my age (late 30s) would be the only ones who would catch the reference...

[monkapotamus]

Hehe I liked that show.

[OKIEDOC]

Holly Molley.

How bout changin the Lords prayer to:

Rub A Dub Dub
Thanks For The Grub sarc

The bible says that in the last days or end times Christians will turn away from the bible in droves.

These people will end up following a false prophet.

These Presbyterians have some cajones in their(Dissing) disrespect of God.

[OKIEDOC]

LOL

[Thinkin' Gal]

The trinity isn't that hard to understand. Just think of it in this illustration: A block of ice on a frying pan...

Sigh. That block of ice is a group of many individual molecules: some frozen, some melted, and some as vapor. The individual molecules are not in three states simultaneously, any more than each individual at a party is simultaneously sober, bumbling drunk, and passed out.

The trinity is confusing precisely because it's non-sensical.

[aruanan]

At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.

These people are just totally effed up.

[aruanan]

So how the hell is "womb" synonymous with "Holy Spirit"?

[aruanan]

Early Christians fought for centuries over different versions of the trinity. The Arian Christians believed that Christ was created after God, not at the time of God's creation, therefore was not equal to God. The Nicean Creed resolved that in favor of the current view, not the Arian Christian view. Why start this again in another form?

This is a mischaracterization of the history of the idea of the trinity. Though the word doesn't appear in the New Testament, the concept permeates it. And in the Council of Nicea, there were only two who said that Christ was "like" God, not in nature God.

[cowdog77]

"I have been studying this phenomenon in the church for over a decade. It is being driven by a feminization of the churches in the USA..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've reread that several times...I think you're on to something. Women preachers, women teaching the adult classes, women picking out the carpeting, women leading the song services, women leading the young married classes, women in charge of the youth groups, women evangelists (where ARE their husbands? Home cooking & cleaning?)

[MountainMenace]

Precisely!

I have been leading a men's group at our church for over fifteen years focused on this problem. Through the authority of the Bible, which feminists hate, men lead and are given the tools through nature to do this. We live in an age that opposes authority of any type (particularly the ones granted by Scripture) and those who are being classed as "protected" are now "free" and seeking their revenge for the oppressions they perceive they suffered. As if they cannot realize the ones who "freed" them are the same they now claimed to have "enslaved" them. They choose to dwell on the dark side of every circumstance because it is of their nature.

As they advance, Christian males invariably retreat. For every foot they gain, Christian males lose. It ought not be this way. My great hope was that Promise Keepers would rally the hearts of men to take what authority (and responsibility) granted them seriously and standup for truth. It hasn't happened yet and the great slumber continues.

[butternut_squash_bisque]

My thoughts, too.

[butternut_squash_bisque]

Major disconnect for me, too.

[TEXOKIE]

Since this all seems to be about choosing a comfortable and non-threatening "approach" to God by finding alternative words to the Trinity, how about doing away with the Trinity concept altogether and adding a fourth and just calling it:

Eenie Meenie Mynnie and Mo?!

This is heartbreaking. The Presbyterian Church left me a long time ago.

[Alamo-Girl]

It's very sad indeed, TexOkie!

[pageonetoo]

...(where ARE their husbands? Home cooking & cleaning?)

[little jeremiah]

Holy Spirit = Womb?

??????

[little jeremiah]

feminist lesbians [unnecessary redundancy] who failed to make wica mainstrean have decided to make christianity atheist.

Hammer Meets Nail!!!!

[MEGoody]

Just one more sign of the 'falling away' scripture speaks of.

[MEGoody]

Just one more sign of the 'falling away' scripture speaks of.