Church mulls 'phrasing' change for Holy Trinity

The Washington Times ^ | June 20, 2006 | Richard Ostling

[pageonetoo]

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.

Delegates to the national assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted yesterday to "receive" a policy paper on sex-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. Church officials are enabled to propose "experimental liturgies" with "alternative phrasings" for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.

Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," options include:
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love"

"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chairman Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during yesterday's debate on the changes.

The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to send the paper back for further study, which would have killed it.

A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity still should be used, but Presbyterians should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."..

[Protagoras]

I haven't suggested we are in the end times. (although we are in the technical sense)

All I have suggested is that Christians try to save worthwhile institutions while they can. And that the final decision is in his hands.

[Protagoras]

Thanks for your informed opinion. I wish you well.

[HossB86]

As my Mom used to say --

"Six of one; half-a-dozen of another...."

But, your definition is just as accurate!

[Jaded]

Big Daddy, Jr and the spook.

[HossB86]

Mel:

That's great news; sadly, you can go to the online forums at byfaithonline and see that the PCA has its fair share of liberals; thankfully, they're either in the minority in all things, or leaving in favor of the PCUSA.

[roofgoat]

I know you didn't imply end of times. I was just pointing out that wherever this decision goes, it's still awesome (and telling) that it was even brought up.

And as far as saving institutions, that's the million dollar question. When is it time to bale?

[rochester_veteran]

... when I hear stories like this, I have to wonder if maybe there IS a satanic force at work behind the scenes...

Satan is at work behind the scenes. It's when we believe he doesn't exist is when he succeeds. Don't forget, Satan is the great deceiver.

I'm a Catholic and my church was infiltrated by those who've undermined church teaching, by those who think they know better and seem hell-bent on destroying it. This is similar to what seems to be happening in the Presbyterian Church and we're lossing parishioners as well. The priest shortage is also a result of this. I refuse to leave though and will stand tough and pray for the reform of our Bishops here in the U.S.

[Protagoras]

When is it time to bale?

Perhaps soon. There will be some important votes today and (I think) tomorrow.

[k omalley]

"They're like kudzu - they're taking over everything"

LOL! That is the best description I have seen yet! Having lived in Virginia I am well acquainted with the infamous kudzu. Yes, they have invaded everything, including my Catholic Church.

[Little Ray]

Nope. They'd have gone their own way no matter what we did. Just like the Episcopals.

[Protagoras]

OK

[RoadTest]

"AG- Assemblies of God?"

That's what I understand AG to mean, yes.

[dfwgator]

Peanut, Butter, & Jelly?
Crosby, Stills, & Nash?
Larry, Darrell, & Darrell?
Up, Chuck, & Die?

Dewey, Cheatem and Howe?

[Wallace T.]

The threat to the PCA and the other conservative Reformed denominations does not come from open liberalism as much as from the same problems that plague evangelicalism in general, such as a de-emphasis on theology and Biblical authority in favor of emotionalism and popular appeal, as well as from the Federal Vision and New Perspective on Paul promulgated by Steve Wilkins, Doug Wilson, Steve Schlissel, and Norman Shepherd. The enemies are different, the theological equivalents of RINOs and libertarians perhaps, but if they prevail, the PCA and its kindred denominations will no longer be bulwarks of Biblical theology.

[HamiltonJay]

They are dykes, wiccans and fruits... that's who they are.... if you remotely read the Bible you will find very little of what the PCUSA passes as truth in there.

[TypeZoNegative]

The trinity isn't that hard to understand. Just think of it in this illustration: A block of ice on a frying pan.

The water from the block of ice is from the same water that made up the block of ice, but can't be called "ice". It's just water. The steam from the ice is also water, but it can't be called "ice".

My previous religion (JW's) didn't explain that concept of the Trinity to me, and for the longest time, I couldn't get the concept of why so many Christians could believe in something so "confusing".

[Miss Marple]

I recently became a Catholic. We had over 60 taken in at Easter vigil in my parish, and many were converts from other denominations and not "marriage conversions."

Our local parish is growing.

We also have a pretty decent bishop, which I know is part of any parish's problem. Have you looked for another parish?

[HamiltonJay]

You call the heavenly Father... mother.. the Holy Spirit a womb and the Lord and Savior "child"... its not close to blasphemy, it is blasphemy, but the PCUSA has been doing that for decades routinely.

[HamiltonJay]

The Roman Catholic Church has its issues, as any organization of man is destined to have... but while there is a fruit or nut here and there in the clergy, you can hardly call the church theologically liberal.

[Miss Marple]

Well, I thought it was, but I am not conversant on the theological definition of blasphemy. However, I do know something wrong when I see it, and that is definitely wrong.

I remain convinced that this is a deliberate attempt to drive traditional people out so that the liberals have the money, land, and platform all to themselves.