Posted on 06/16/2006 3:03:55 AM PDT by Dane
Jacob hiring: Was it legal?
Republican candidate for Congress John Jacob on Thursday defended his hiring of a couple from Chile several years ago, insisting that he acted in good faith and within the law.
Jacob, of Eagle Mountain, is running against five-term incumbent Chris Cannon for Utah's 3rd District seat in Washington, a race dominated by the issue of illegal immigration. The outcome is widely viewed as a bellwether of national sentiment. Jacob has embraced a tough enforcement position on illegal immigrants and those who employ them.
In a debate at Utah Valley State College on Saturday, Cannon and Jacob were asked whether they had ever employed an illegal immigrant. Cannon replied with a definitive "no," while Jacob said "not to my knowledge" and went on to explain circumstances in which he hired the Chilean couple to work for him after he set up a company in their name.
Rather than paying the Silvas as his own employees, Jacob paid their company -- called The Office Specialist of Utah -- for services. That company then paid Marta Silva for secretarial work. Her husband, Oscar Silva, did landscaping work for Jacob.
A Saratoga Springs address corresponding to state records of the Silvas' company is listed in the telephone directory. The phone number has been disconnected. Utah County property records list the current owner as Marta Araya.
Jacob said Thursday that he stepped in to help the Silvas with financial sponsorship at the urging of his LDS bishop. The Silvas were in the country on Oscar's student visa and had fallen on hard times, Jacob said. Oscar attended Salt Lake Community College.
Whether Jacob's employment of the Silvas five or six years ago was legal has been the subject of recent news reports. Jacob dismissed the reports as innuendo and said the true story is one of a couple who, with financial help from him, made good on their goals in America.
Jacob said he met the Silvas six years ago after they entered the country. When they arrived, he said, they had the resources required by the government for a student visa: sufficient money to complete the entire course of education, including all living costs. Those resources included houses they owned in Chile and the means to buy a home here, he said.
However, something went wrong with the Chile holdings -- Jacob said the Silvas were cheated by real estate agents and the houses were trashed -- and so they needed a financial sponsor in the U.S. to take on the financial responsibility for the schooling.
Jacob said when his bishop came to him with the story, he agreed to help, to the tune of more than $100,000 over four years to support the couple and their three children.
The Silvas were not happy with the arrangement, Jacob said. "They felt like they were getting something for nothing, and they wanted to give something back."
Jacob said he and the Silvas consulted an attorney and were told that the couple could form a company that could hire employees -- themselves in this case.
In most circumstances, the government places tight restrictions on employment for people on student visas. Some on-campus part-time work may be allowed, or work that relates to the student's field of study. In some student visa classifications, a spouse or dependent of the visa holder may work; in other circumstances they may not. The specific type of visa held by the Silvas was not available Thursday.
When asked whether he believed that any foreign national who entered the United States on a student visa could simply form a company and proceed to work as a principal or employee of that company, Jacob replied that he did not have the answer. He said he had followed the advice of legal counsel in paying the Silvas.
"I don't have those answers. What I got was, if they open a company then you can pay the company. That allows them to pay taxes, and that's legal," Jacob said. "I'm not an attorney. I tried to do everything legally."
He said that Oscar had "permission" to do landscaping work for him during the summer.
Jacob also responded to an allegation raised in news reports that he had paid the Silvas in cash to keep the arrangement under the table.
"If they received cash, it was because it was what I had at the time," Jacob said. "I actually believe I paid them most of the time, if not all of the time -- it was by check."
Cannon's campaign declined to comment on the employment issue.
"However, this story is further testimony to an immigration system that is unworkable," said campaign manager Nathan Rathbun in a statement. "Perhaps this controversy will help make it clear that immigration is a complex issue that cannot be addressed by way of sound bites and generalizations."
Eagle Mountain Councilman David Lifferth, who once lived in the same LDS ward as Jacob and the Silvas, said he was surprised when he read in the Daily Herald that when asked if he had ever employed illegal immigrants, Jacob answered "not to my knowledge." Lifferth said it was "common knowledge" that Mrs. Silva, whose husband was on a student visa, was working for Jacob.
"A candidate for Congress employed people who did not have the proper documents," he said. "They were here on an education visa with very strict requirements. Immigration is obviously the No. 1 issue in the congressional campaign. One of the candidates has some explaining to do." Lifferth's Web site says he supports Cannon for Congress.
Jacob said that there was nothing wrong with his handling of the Silva matter -- just the opposite.
"What a success story. And they're trying to make this look like I did something wrong," Jacob said. "If I'd just given them the money, it wouldn't have been a problem. I tried to follow everything I could, and because I have a heart, now they may be in trouble? I may be in trouble?"
Antonella Packard, who also once lived in the same LDS ward as the Silvas and Jacob, and also came to the United States on a student visa, said that students who wanted to work off campus had to jump through hoops and get special permission. If students were working without permission, doing something unrelated to their studies, they could have been deported, she said.
Jacob said that Silva completed his education at Salt Lake Community College.
Silva visited with him about six weeks ago, he said, wearing an armed services uniform -- Jacob couldn't remember what branch of the military. He said Silva expected to become a U.S. citizen very soon.
Jacob also said he has not spoken with the Silvas since recent news reports about the employment emerged and that the contact information he has for them is out of date.
Stephen Stone, a Provo resident and president and editor of RenewAmerica.us....From this thread. I'm sorry, but a longshot candidate should not be hard to "pin down". An establishment candidate, sure -- play it safe -- but not a guy like Jacob.
"We've done research on John Jacob and it's kind of hard to pin him down. Chris Cannon has done some things that would be a red flag or troublesome to conservatives."
If you go to Jacobs' website, his positions are fuzzy and ill-defined. It resembles Kinky Friedman's, who is running for governor here in Texas.I should also note that Cannon has a near-perfect record from ACU and a near-perfect (almost 0%) from ADA. It would be a real shame if Jacob was worse than Cannon, particularly on illegal immigration.
Jacobs is hoping to slip in as the "un-Cannon." Cannon has a sterling record, and is being endorsed by the NRA.
--sinkspur
I know quite a few people on student visas. They can't do any work at all if it isn't approved (being a TA, etc.). They can't work at McDonald's. They can't clean toilets, they can't do anything. The money he claimed to give her was small potatoes and even if laws were enforced, since he isn't a genuine employer, not much -- if anything -- would happen to him. The couple would be deported, however.
"like you and other zealot tancredo supporters don't have farmers and house builders automatically convicted for the people they hire."
I can't with knowledge say that every farmer belongs in prison but I sure can as far as contractors go. Every last one of them that hires an illegal belongs in prison.
On the contrary, this story makes it appear that Jacob did something illegal. His explanations are not convincing. Most voters won't bother to get into the intracacies; they will assume that where there is smoke, there is fire.
This is Jacob's Busby moment.
Good Luck on getting an answer from Dane, I'm still waiting for many I've asked.
Guess he just put up this thread to continue his never-ending rant against Tancredo.....Unless I missed it Tom isn't even mentioned in the article, yet EVERY reply from Dane includes another rant against him.
IIRC correctly Dane is in CA, yet he remains obsessed with the fact that Tancredo is always re=elected in CO.
His time & effort could be much better used in getting some 'America First' pols elected in his home state.
I've been trying to get the dude's opinion on the Pence plan for weeks now to no avail.
Is it breaking the law if there is a legal loophole?
susie
Jacob will probably owe back social security and tax withholding for this couple. They were probably employees as a legal matter despite the dross, if they only worked for Jacob.
Don't hold you breath....(maybe we should mention Tancredo's name in all our questions....;o)...
My last inquiry was why Dane showed up again to support the illegals.
Even tho one of them freely admitted he was much better off (financially) working off the books.
When asked his thoughts on any guest worker program this illegal said;
"It doesn't interest me; I would prefer to live like I'm living," he says. "It's much better for me than being here legally, like a guest worker."
It's about Jacob's and tancredo's hypocrisy about using foreign born labor..
Ahhh, immoral but not illegal?
This man obviously broke the law and used a loophole to do it. He SHOULD be fined at the LEAST.
I believe that if it is a loophole, he did not break the law, so, legally what can be done to him?
susie
bill(oral sex is not sex) and hillary clinton, tom tancredo, and bay buchanan are applauding you for your above, IMO.
Because I can read and I understand what words mean? Good for them.
susie
Keep on posting brytlea, you make my point(the hypocrisy of the tancredo zealots) with each of your posts.
Loophole-- A technicality that allows a person or business to avoid the scope of a law without directly violating the law.
The poster I was responding to said:
This man obviously broke the law and used a loophole to do it. He SHOULD be fined at the LEAST.
I simply pointed out that if he used a loophole, he didn't break the law. For that observation, I got back:
Ahhh, immoral but not illegal?
Which prompted me to clarify:
I was not commenting on the morality of what he did. I was commenting on what you said:
This man obviously broke the law and used a loophole to do it. He SHOULD be fined at the LEAST.
I believe that if it is a loophole, he did not break the law, so, legally what can be done to him?
This in turn prompted you to suggest that I am somehow applauded by the likes of Bill Clinton et al. Now, I gotta think you mean that as some sort of a put down, since I've never seen you say anything nice to anyone except open border advocates. The other thing I might also discern is that you either cannot read well, or you like taking what people say and twisting into something it isn't, to make your point. Of course, if you really had a good point to make, it would stand on its merit and not require you to do what you do.
So, if you think I've commented anywhere in my posts on the rightness or wrongness of what the guy did, find it and post it. Otherwise, I think you owe me an apology. I won't be waiting for one, however, since I've also never seen you do that.
susie
You may have a future in being part of hillary's campaign, put your resume in, I think it will get a positive response.
Pointless to respond to you ever at all.
susie
No doubt, that will save you from doing your clinton/tancredo/buchanan like pretzel twisting, that twisting must be painful.
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