Investigators of Haditha Shootings Look to Exhume Bodies (WaPo Reports Holes in Case)

The Washington Post ^ | Friday, June 2, 2006 | Josh White and Thomas E. Ricks

[jebeier]

I would be interested to see what the actual rate of AK-47s by our Marines is. It would seem odd to me to have our soldiers using non-standard weapons in a widespread way. Too many ammunition compatibility and supply issues, etc.

[anglian]

This Guardian article, written in August 2005, describes Haditha as it was a couple months before the incident. It is not pretty: (via hughhewitt)Monday August 22, 2005 Guardian gains rare access to Haditha and finds it fully in control of 'mujahideen'

The executions are carried out at dawn on Haqlania bridge, the entrance to Haditha. A small crowd usually turns up to watch even though the killings are filmed and made available on DVD in the market the same afternoon. One of last week's victims was a young man in a black tracksuit. Like the others he was left on his belly by the blue iron railings at the bridge's southern end. His severed head rested on his back, facing Baghdad. Children cheered when they heard that the next day's spectacle would be a double bill: two decapitations. A man named Watban and his brother had been found guilty of spying.

With so many alleged American agents dying here Haqlania bridge was renamed Agents' bridge. Then a local wag dubbed it Agents' fridge, evoking a mortuary, and that name has stuck.

A three-day visit by a reporter working for the Guardian last week established what neither the Iraqi government nor the US military has admitted: Haditha, a farming town of 90,000 people by the Euphrates river, is an insurgent citadel.The Islamist guerrillas are the sole authority, running the town's security, administration and communications. A three-hour drive north from Baghdad, under the nose of an American base, it is a miniature Taliban-like state. Insurgents decide who lives and dies, which salaries get paid, what people wear, what they watch and listen to. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1553969,00.html

[StarCMC]

Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Thanks for the ping Coop.

[anglian]

Also of note: 20 Marines lost their lives in August in this insurgent stronghold. They died in two separate attacks: 14 died when a roadside bomb exploded beneath their Amphibious Assault Vehicle during combat operations south of Haditha, Iraq, on August 3, 2005, and six sniper team members killed by enemy small-arms fire in an ambush outside Haditha, Iraq, on August 1, 2005.

[Smokin' Joe]

The thing which really stuck out to me in the video was the size of the bullet holes in the door. The 5.56 mm round is less than a quarter of an inch in diameter and those holes looked bigger--more like 7.62mm (.30 cal) which happens to be the diameter of the round the AK47 fires.

(Yes, the US uses 7.62 mm ammo, too, but I am not sure what the Marines had on them that day for small arms.) At any rate, the US bullets will be constructed differently and of different weights than the AK ammo.

[eyespysomething]

Posted after bedtime for me. Exactly what I was asking yesterday.

[Chickenhawk Warmonger]

Time also quoted US military officials "familiar with the investigation" about specifics of that day in November. The statements from the anonymous officials confirms that the Marines were not deliberately targeting civilians - but no one is reporting these "leaks" from the investigation...

From the Time Magazine March Article...
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1174682,00.html
"They (Marines) thought they heard the clack-clack sound of an AK-47 being racked and readied for fire. Believing they were about to be ambushed, the Marines broke down the two doors simultaneously and fired their weapons."

"The Marines say they then started taking fire from the direction of a second house, prompting them to break down the door of that house and throw in a grenade, blowing up a propane tank in the kitchen."

"In all two AK-47s were discovered."

From the May Article...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892-4,00.html
"The Marines made hand and arm signals for the taxi to stop. But as the taxi halted near the first humvee, a bomb under the fourth humvee exploded, killing it driver - Lance Corporal Miguel (TJ) Terrazas... Suspecting that the four students in the taxi either triggered the bomb or were acting as spotters, the Marines ordered the men and the driver, who by then had exited the taxi, to lie on the ground. Instead, they ran and the Marines shot and killed them."

This is how Murtha described the taxi incident on Good Morning America...
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/print?id=2019526
"The first five victims in Haditha were unarmed Iraqi civilians, who were riding in a taxi near the Marine convoy soon after it was hit by an improvised explosive device. The five Iraqis were said to be running away when the Marines shot them, although none of the Iraqis were armed."

By leaving out the questionable connection to the triggering of the IED or the possibility of spotters and neglecting to mention that the men ran after being ordered to lie on the ground, it changes the entire context of the incident. But we would not want the specifics to get in the way of a prime Iraq War Bashing opportunity.

http://chickenhawkexpress.blogspot.com/2006/06/time-magazine-murtha-and-taxi-driver.html

[pissant]

I pray that there will not even be a trial. These guys did not do what the supposed "witnesses" said they did.

[PleaDeal]

Well I'll be... even the WaPo if finally catching on that something just ain't right with this story!

[ko_kyi]

Probably not very high, however for combat that requires high reliability and low accuracy (like house-to-house) or when you want to avoid the sound of US arms, it might be more useful to use an AK.

Then again, I am only speculating. I have no military experience, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Try this source: On record

Lieut. Colonel Michelle Martin-Hing, spokeswoman for the Multi-National Force-Iraq, told Time the involvement of the ncis does not mean that a crime occurred. And she says the fault for the civilian deaths lies squarely with the insurgents, who "placed noncombatants in the line of fire as the Marines responded to defend themselves."

Or explain how the WaPo completely screwed up a On Record source: (From Hugh Hewitt):

The Post has been unable to get anyone from the Pentagon on the record on the investigation, using mostly anonymous sources. The one man they did get on the record on Friday was retired Brig. Gen. David H. Brahms, a long-time lawyer with the Marine Corps who has experience with these types of cases. His quote is in the third paragraph. See if you can guess why the prominent first-quote placement:

"When these investigations come out, there's going to be a firestorm," said retired Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms, formerly a top lawyer for the Marine Corps. "It will be worse than Abu Ghraib -- nobody was killed at Abu Ghraib."
I have a feeling someone was lying in wait for an Abu Ghraib reference. I read the quote and was taken aback because I spoke to the same Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms about the case this week, and his sentiments were very different from those presented in the Post. Which explains why he sent me this statement yesterday:

"Recent reporting on the events in Haditha, Iraq have included significant factual errors and/or misleading statements. This includes a quote attributed to me in the Washington Post this morning that was taken completely out of context and its meaning distorted. Many facts that are favorable to the Marines involved have not yet been disclosed."

32 posted on 06/01/2006 8:40:31 AM PDT by pissant
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641730/posts?page=32#32

[roses of sharon]

It is obvious now that Murtha and his sources planned this media campaign.

They have set up the perfect scenario for themselves, by public pressure on the military to convict.

The military wants no cries of cover-up, and no riots in the ME.

So they will convict these guys of murder.

It is blackmail, the MSM does its job extremely well.

If you don't tow the line they will destroy your reputation and livelihood, and the war effort.

[rennatdm]

Maybe even shot post mortem.

[Coop]

The military wants no cries of cover-up, and no riots in the ME. So they will convict these guys of murder.

But using your logic the military does want to convict its members of murders they did not commit? I don't think so.

[Fruitbat]

I'm stunned that they've been investigating this for TWO MONTHS and are only now looking to exhume the bodies. (And how will they be able to prove those bodies are the ones which were "massacred"?)

As well, and I may have missed it tucked away somewhere, but was this raised to a level at the time it happened? It seems as if it was raised to a level, by the Iraqis, only after much time had passed casting even more of a shadow on the incident. One would think that is this was an open and shut case, then they'd have been all up in arms the next day. Again, maybe they were, but nothing that I've read has been clear on that.

[beachn4fun]

AMEN to all the above. So true.

[Coop]

One would think that is this was an open and shut case, then they'd have been all up in arms the next day. Again, maybe they were, but nothing that I've read has been clear on that.

Capt. Kimber - one of the three officers Murtha said were relieved of duty over Haditha, but since then we've found out Murtha was wrong! - made it quite clear yesterday that he met with local Iraqi leaders over the next weeks and months -- and none of them said a word about an alleged massacre.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[sono]

It would not surprise me in the least if the entire Haditha episode is a Sunni plot whose aim is to use the US MSM as their personal Weapon of Mass Distraction.

[roses of sharon]

The military investigators have already taken the word of the enemy on the ground, humanitarian groups, and the MSM, in other investigations where the charges were dropped.

Unfortunately we never hear about the acquittals.

And the general who ordered "values" training has implicated the entire force.

The brass wants good press, its human nature.