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White House: Haditha details to be public
AP/Yahoo ^ | 5/31/06 | Unknown

Posted on 05/31/2006 6:20:21 AM PDT by Coop

... Snow said that he has been assured by the Pentagon that "all the details" will be made available...

Rep. John Murtha... has said Marines shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into two homes and shot others.

On Tuesday, [Snow] said President Bush learned of the killings only after a reporter from Time magazine asked questions...

Asked when Bush was first briefed about the events in Haditha, an insurgent stronghold in western Iraq, Snow replied Tuesday: "When a Time reporter first made the call."

According to the attorney for one of three Marine Corps officers relieved of command from a Marine battalion are not targets of investigations into whether their troops killed the civilians or tried to cover it up.

Meanwhile, Lance Cpl. James Crossan of North Bend, Wash., who was injured in the roadside bomb attack in Haditha, told a Seattle television station that some of the Marines might have snapped after seeing one of their own killed in action.

"So, I think they were just blinded by hate ... and they just lost control," Crossan told KING-TV, which aired the interview Tuesday.

The targets... are about a dozen enlisted Marines, according to Hackett, a Marine reservist and Iraqi war veteran who represents Kimber... [Hackett] said the highest ranking among those under investigation is a staff sergeant who led the four-vehicle convoy that was hit by the bomb.

Kimber... was relieved of command last month because his subordinates... used profanity and criticized the performance of Iraqi security services during an interview with Britain's Sky News TV...

...Hackett told The Associated Press by telephone. "He's not under investigation for anything related to what has played out in the press." [snip]

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alleged; crossan; hackett; haditha; iraq; jamescrossan; kimber; marines; massacre; murtha; murthawatch
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To: armydawg1

You have a point-I have been ambivalent about this war, there I said it, because I know that in war, the person who kills the most women and children wins. Period. You kill and kill civilians until someone says uncle. This is the modern theater, and Americans don't have the stomach for it.

I am not seeing these Iraqi's as all that grateful any damn way. There a bunch of stone-age islamic loonies, if you ask me, who don't deserve our boys dying for them. I know, I know, we are not only fighting for their freedom, but looking for terrorists. Well, we sure as hell found them!

And MAYBE, I SAID MAYBE, now our Marines are so spooked that they are shooting children who may have been related to a bomber? I don't have any answers. Only questions.


441 posted on 06/01/2006 3:51:26 AM PDT by ktvaughn (I avoid cliches like the plague...)
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To: photodawg

Great post at 422!


442 posted on 06/01/2006 3:55:37 AM PDT by Canedawg (In God We Trust)
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To: Jezebelle
If the civilians weren't innocent, there's every reason to shoot them.

Actually, there's not. Unless they are an armed threat, it's completely illegal to shoot them 'for being bad guys'. Unless they were killed on accident or in the crossfire of another battle, shooting unarmed civilians will merit murder charges, under military law.

If they were innocent, there's every reason to suspect they weren't innocent or they wouldn't have been there.

Huh? It's a crime to be in your house? They may have known about the IED attack, and odds are they did, but that doesn't make them different from most other families that lives near a major roadway in Iraq. Terrorists will set up wherever they want to for an attack, and execute entire families that rat them out or otherwise resist them.

443 posted on 06/01/2006 3:55:45 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (- Islam will never survive being laughed at. -)
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To: MNJohnnie
In fact, PH claims a shrapnel wound is so obviously different that a Combat Infantry Marine would know the difference between the two.

Yes. Shrapnel tends to inflict many wounds, whereas gunshot wounds are much fewer

Leave aside the obviously question why would a Infantry Marine would be examining the wounds of dead Civilians which is not part of his job

Actually, it is, so they can figure out what happened and write it down in the after-action report.

Now, the original AAR said that the Iraqi civilians were killed by the IED, and that was what the press got told in November 2005. By your statement, the Marines had no business making any such statement in their AAR or to the press, as they would have absolutely no way of knowing whether or not that was the case.

If he HAD been shot there, he would be crippled for life, his spine severed just below the neck.

Then two guys from my unit in Vietnam during my tour should should have been "crippled for life." Unfortunately for your thesis, they weren't.

So your "Iraqi Civil Rights Group" are shown to be liars.

No, they haven't, for the reason cited above.

So want to try and explain these inconsistencies in your "witnesses" testimony?

So, would you like to explain the inconsistencies between your take on what should have been in the AAR vs. what actually went into it?

444 posted on 06/01/2006 4:10:05 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Steel Wolf

"Weren't" was the operative word. The phrase, "If they weren't innocent" means either armed or hostile with the immediate ability to kill, not just being in the condition of being a "bad guy."

They were told long before to leave, from what I understand.


445 posted on 06/01/2006 4:28:39 AM PDT by Jezebelle (Don't tread on me.)
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To: Fishtalk; BeHoldAPaleHorse
We previously established that PaleHorse has not seen any incident reports. He is merely establishing as "fact" the media reports of said reports.

But he's an ex-cop, so ya gotta believe him.

446 posted on 06/01/2006 4:36:24 AM PDT by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: Valin
Why not wait until ALL the fact are out? /radical concept

================================================

Show me one post where I even conjectured on what the Marines did or did not do. You can't because I didn't.

You read the rantings of one of the most notoriously un-hinged freepers and buy into them. Who is sadder, the unbalanced raver on the corner or the on-looker who believes him?

447 posted on 06/01/2006 4:42:22 AM PDT by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: Coop
The first reports from the Marine Corps to the press in November 2005 stated that the deaths were all due to the IED going off. The evidence at hand says otherwise, including the photographs that so many are upset that the press got ahold of.

When the witness says one thing, and the event scene photographs say something else, that witness gets to be a suspect.

Once upon a time, Free Republic routinely pointed out the mismatch between what the federal government said and what other evidence said (Waco, etc.) FReepers worked tirelessly to keep stuff from going down the memory hole.

Now, FReepers complain about the memory hole being out of order.

448 posted on 06/01/2006 4:42:35 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Cementjungle
but this particular event had all the makings of a political bombshell. From that angle, he should be at least aware of what's going on.

I've already said that. But you're assuming from the moment it happened it was viewed in a political light. I'm saying that likely wasn't the case until Time magazine started its campaign (whether the campaign was for justice or something else remains to be seen). Then the President was briefed.

449 posted on 06/01/2006 4:52:15 AM PDT by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: MNJohnnie
"Wanna maybe rethink your position now that you know ALL your "facts" are based on the claims of an "Iraqi Civil Rights Group" that is prove to be liars?"
Let us hope your efforts to bring out these very questionable reports have a final effect on those that have pre-judged our Marines.
If they cannot see what is so obviouse to some of us, then so be it. One thing is for certain, the goons know they can get away with outright lies and the press will champion their cause. They have the L/MSM willingly in their hands as so many of us have made note of many times.
Hope this whole thing comes back to really haunt them [MSM].
Our soldiers and Marines simply deserve to be treated better then this. They serve with HONOR.
450 posted on 06/01/2006 4:53:34 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: sinkspur
but this particular event had all the makings of a political bombshell. From that angle, he should be at least aware of what's going on.

Who's "he," Sink? Forget to ping someone, did ya?

451 posted on 06/01/2006 4:54:44 AM PDT by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: freema

If you don't consider it a silly game, don't treat it as such. You obviously want to say that this comment about the propane tank (What? Are you accepting something in a press report as true?) means or could mean that there was an IED in the house and that the initial report was therefore true. Why not come out and say it? Instead, you go through this cutesiness of asking about "rules" for IEDs and whatnot.


452 posted on 06/01/2006 5:00:38 AM PDT by lugsoul (Livin' in fear is just another way of dying before your time. - Mike Cooley)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
We're all quite aware of the details of the case. Perhaps you'll soon be up to speed, Detective.

The first reports from the Marine Corps to the press in November 2005 stated that the deaths were all due to the IED going off. The evidence at hand says otherwise, including the photographs that so many are upset that the press got ahold of. When the witness says one thing, and the event scene photographs say something else, that witness gets to be a suspect.

And an investigation should be launched. And it was. And it is not complete. And you take some press reports which fit your agenda as Gospel, and dismiss others. But you promote them as fact, while others here prefer to wait for the investigation's details, and pray that U.S. Marines did not commit the atrocious crimes of which they are accused.

Once upon a time you used to use a term - "Semper Fidelis." Remember what that means?

And if FR has fallen from its previous great heights, perhaps you can post another opus, Poo-, err, PaleHorse.

453 posted on 06/01/2006 5:08:25 AM PDT by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: Coop
And you take some press reports which fit your agenda as Gospel, and dismiss others.

I accept certain accounts in the press because they are corroborated by accounts from people I know at Camp Pendleton. The overwhelming message I'm getting is "this is going to be really bad."

454 posted on 06/01/2006 5:10:29 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Coop
Once upon a time you used to use a term - "Semper Fidelis."

No, I didn't. I was Army.

455 posted on 06/01/2006 5:10:55 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
The overwhelming message I'm getting is "this is going to be really bad."

That's the same message I'm getting -- from you, from the press, from my next-door neighbors.

I also got a similar message about Ilario Pantano. Fortunately, a trial was held before his execution.

And the more I read about this case, the more discrepancies I find in various stories - from both perspectives. And when the defense speaks out, SHOCKINGLY their story presents a different picture.

I refuse to throw combat-tested Marines overboard prematurely. Semper Fi, esprit de corps, the few, the proud, all that good stuff. Remember?

If they're charged and found guilty, they'll pay. As will their families. If they're not charged, they'll still pay, as will their families. Will you be as vocal then? Or will you just disappear? If it's the latter, at least this time please spare us a fake opus, okay?

456 posted on 06/01/2006 5:18:38 AM PDT by Coop (FR = a lotta talk, but little action)
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To: Coop
I also got a similar message about Ilario Pantano.

I never heard that about Pantano.

The folks who told me "don't worry" about Pantano are saying "brace for it" on this.

And when the defense speaks out, SHOCKINGLY their story presents a different picture.

Generally, it's easy to tell when a defense attorney is lying. His lips are moving. (/cynical former cop mode)

If it's the latter, at least this time please spare us a fake opus, okay?

I haven't opused. I'm not Poohbah. I met Poohbah once. He's a high-strung a$$hole IRL. Me, I'm generally not, as long as I make my physical therapy appointments (I have chronic pain from several injuries).

457 posted on 06/01/2006 5:25:04 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Canedawg
Great post at 422!
///////////////////////////////////////

As one Dawg to another, thanks. I haven't kept up with John Glenn, but being a teenager during his NASA years, he was always a hero of mine. Contrast John Glenn with Fat Jack Murtha, and you get a true picture of politics in America, and why its important to stay involved no matter how messy it gets.
458 posted on 06/01/2006 6:24:55 AM PDT by photodawg
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To: Coop

No. I didn't forget to ping anybody.


459 posted on 06/01/2006 6:27:29 AM PDT by sinkspur ( Don Cheech. Vito Corleone would like to meet you......Vito Corleone.....)
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To: Coop
And an investigation should be launched. And it was.

After Time did its own investigation....do you see the problem here?

And I thought he was The Sheriff...you need to keep your pet names straight.

460 posted on 06/01/2006 6:30:23 AM PDT by ContemptofCourt
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