Posted on 05/31/2006 6:20:21 AM PDT by Coop
... Snow said that he has been assured by the Pentagon that "all the details" will be made available...
Rep. John Murtha... has said Marines shot and killed unarmed civilians in a taxi at the scene and went into two homes and shot others.
On Tuesday, [Snow] said President Bush learned of the killings only after a reporter from Time magazine asked questions...
Asked when Bush was first briefed about the events in Haditha, an insurgent stronghold in western Iraq, Snow replied Tuesday: "When a Time reporter first made the call."
According to the attorney for one of three Marine Corps officers relieved of command from a Marine battalion are not targets of investigations into whether their troops killed the civilians or tried to cover it up.
Meanwhile, Lance Cpl. James Crossan of North Bend, Wash., who was injured in the roadside bomb attack in Haditha, told a Seattle television station that some of the Marines might have snapped after seeing one of their own killed in action.
"So, I think they were just blinded by hate ... and they just lost control," Crossan told KING-TV, which aired the interview Tuesday.
The targets... are about a dozen enlisted Marines, according to Hackett, a Marine reservist and Iraqi war veteran who represents Kimber... [Hackett] said the highest ranking among those under investigation is a staff sergeant who led the four-vehicle convoy that was hit by the bomb.
Kimber... was relieved of command last month because his subordinates... used profanity and criticized the performance of Iraqi security services during an interview with Britain's Sky News TV...
...Hackett told The Associated Press by telephone. "He's not under investigation for anything related to what has played out in the press." [snip]
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
You have Michael Savage syndrome, Johnnie. Accuse the other poster of what you, yourself is guilty of.
That's a much better analogy. The police may be upset that the patrons inside did nothing to stop the bank robbery. The patrons may have done nothing because they were afraid, or because they like seeing someone stick it to the Man, or for whatever reason they want. Still, that doesn't automatically make them accomplices, and it certainly doesn't turn them into armed opponents.
Please post a link to the classified report that has yet to be released that you seem to have access to.
Very true statement, sir.
Let me chime in with my .02, aimed not just at your post but really the entire thread:
I think everyone here on both sides of the debate is legitimately waiting for all the facts here, There are, however, some folks who are speculating and looking at the glass as half-empty, so to speak, refusing to rule out the possibility of the worst happening. That speculation, people giving their .02, is not going to stop because it's human nature to give one's .02, especially in settings like this. There are other folks who see the glass as half-full, so to speak, who aren't going to expect the worst until they're given reason to do so, and who don't like the speculation because they see it as aiding and emboldening the enemy in the field and giving the domestic political opposition and a hostile news media fodder to use against President Bush and his policies. I understand and respect those sentiments. However, I say again that expecting people not to speculate in situations like this, and especially in settings like this, denies human nature. I sincerely believe that it would be an abject impossibility in the United States of 2006 to have the same kind of unified "loose lips sink ships" outlook we had during World War II. God help us if we'd had the Internet then. I mentioned in another thread about a different subject today that it's hard to put genies back into bottles. I think that is applicable here as well.
The way I see it, there are four possibilities here:
A: Our guys deliberately did something bad. If when all the evidence comes out, that's proven to be the case, the guilty parties should be popped hard. I don't care what the jihadis have done, are doing or will do .. I don't care about holding all the combatants to the same standard ... I don't care what the political hit will be from it. They should be popped hard because that's the way the United States of America operates and because it's the right thing to do.
B. An accident or unpreventable but non-deliberate collateral damage happened. In that case, we move forward and put it behind us and ignore the chattering that will happen from the usual suspects, because there's no way to avoid the P.R. hit and it's useless to try.
C. It was a setup, in which case we present the evidence of that strongly and often in every possible forum, and again move forward and ignore the jabbering.
D. It's all baloney, in which case we follow the same strategy as C.
Yes. And it is exactly what the name I gave you says it is, an explosive device improvised from some explosive material, whether it be an artillery shell or a shaped charge of high-explosives or an ANFO bomb or whatever, rigged to a detonator and triggering device set off by cell phone or remote or hard-wired trigger. Your point?
That's what I'm talking about. Let us have another deranged rant. See if you can surpass that one.
Here are a couple articles for you
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1641325/posts?page=1
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641300/posts
and one for sinkspur and lugsoul
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641385/posts
No, Sinkspur analogy is all wet - In that only if every member of the lobby were aware that this said individual was going to rob the bank...he was also going to likely try and kill as many employees of the bank as possible during this robbery....that they all allowed this robber to use their homes if needed while on the lamb, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, then your analogy makes sense in terms of the police not only beating the robber suspect but also those in the lobby.
Sinkspur you are conveniently ignoring this own girls words - She openly admits she (and her family) knew of this planted IED - Knew where it was planted and to the exact moment it was going to be set off (by the detonator...whom very well could have used her house? Or are you willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that the detonator didn't use her house? If so why?....yet you have not once been willing to give any of these Marines the benefit of the doubt.
There is case after case where soldiers have been accused of doing all sorts of things (including murder) and have later been completely cleared.
Again, if undue force was used (those Marines will be punished) but Sinkspur you are at a disgustingly low level of wanting to convict these Marines before having all the evidence. (while at the same time running for any excuse as to why this girl and her family clearly knew of the planted IED).
Lastly Sinkspur are you an opponent of the war in Iraq? Curious here?....and why don't you seem to care about the completely one-sided take by the MSM regarding the basic reality that our soldiers and Marines are in fact giving their lives for Iraqi's...and/or risking their lives hundreds of times a week.
I can't remember off the top of my head, but if I see it again, I'll ping you to it.
What is your motivation here? Are you under some misguided notion that your Pat Buchannaite style Neo-isolationism opposition to Iraq will be validated if Hidatha turns out to be a "War Crime"?
It will not you know.
The one has no bearing on the other. If you accept that sort of "logic" then you must be agree that all Cars must outlawed because some people do criminal acts in them. As any rational adult can see, that sort of "logic" is absurd nonsense.
You're a liar. An absolute, bald-faced liar. I want to convict no one, and I am just now reading about the girl and the IED (but have seen nothing but your speculation about it). You have MNJohnnie syndrome: putting words in people's mouths. You lose every bit of credibility when you do that.
Lastly Sinkspur are you an opponent of the war in Iraq? Curious here?....and why don't you seem to care about the completely one-sided take by the MSM regarding the basic reality that our soldiers and Marines are in fact giving their lives for Iraqi's...and/or risking their lives hundreds of times a week.
No. I support the war in Iraq. But I don't support killing people in cold-blood, if, indeed that is what happened.
What I do know is that every signal from the Marines, the White House, the media, and every other source is that these people were not killed by terrorists, or set up by terrorists, or were, en masse, all terrorists themselves.
You are running out of straw, building all those straw men. Though I like the part where you just completely make up a Buchananite position to ascribe to me. That's some imagination.
Is there a rule that an Improvised ED must be rigged to a detonator and triggering device and set off by cell phone or remote or hard-wired trigger?
All true, but that would have been a very simple explanation, one that wouldn't require the initial report of '15 killed by IED' to be used.
Revenge killing is a very common phenomenon in warfare. We try to stamp it out as much as possible, but the fact of the matter is, it's a normal human reaction to seeing a friend killed.
General Pace, the Chairman of the JCS, gave a speech at the Citadel recently, and in it, he told a very interesting story, as a cautionary tale to the young graduates. As a platoon leader in Vietnam, he lost a private to sniper fire that was coming from a nearby village. It was the first Marine he had ever lost, and in a fit of rage he ordered an airstrike on the entire village. His platoon sergeant said nothing, and simply looked at him. After a minute, he realized that what he was doing was wrong, canceled the airstrike, and ordered his men to clear the village on foot. They found that the sniper had gone, and there was nothing left in the village but non combatants. General Pace firmly stated that he's glad he changed his mind, because he didn't think he could live with himself if that airstrike had gone through.
I read that story in an Army post newspaper today. I'm glad that he shared that story, because it lets me know he understands the pressure the troops are under. Still, I think few Americans really understand just how overpowering that pressure is, and that's unfortunate for a nation so willing to send troops into harms way.
A "rule"? Of course not. An IED is just that. Pretty much anything one can rig up to explode. What I described are some, but certainly not all, common types. I'm sure there are many, many kinds of uncommon types. Hell, a cigarette in a book of matches and a gas can could qualify. But I reckon whatever silly game you are engaging in has a point. Want to take a shot at making it?
Please see the link at post #233 for a video of the girl saying she KNEW the IED was about to go off, so she covered her ears.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641124/posts?page=227#223
I'm sure there's a fair number here who would say that he wussed out and should've put a daisy cutter on that village.
Very true. People should delve into World War II history a little more ... I'm a WWII buff ... there are tales that will curl each stand of your hair twice.
Still, I think few Americans really understand just how overpowering that pressure is, and that's unfortunate for a nation so willing to send troops into harms way.
Gen. W.T. Sherman: "War is hell."
Complete BS - I have linked you to the exact video that another freeper posted regarding the 10 year old girl telling of the planted IED (which I watched on CNN World early this morning).
So maybe instead of ranting about sh*t you know clearly nothing about...you should take the time to read what other post to you...and the links they give you to the video.
The first you have heard about this girl and the IED???Complete BS. I've only been telling you about it for over several hours! And linked you to the video to boot!
And with each of your posts you have clearly left the impression that these Marines did something wrong....and oftenly made excuses for why people might help insurgents (through no fault of their own).
And bud, I have all the credibility I need on here.
I've never said a word about this being a set-up or anything like that - What I have said is there are clearly more facts then we know...(you have stated BS like there was clearly no shots fired by the people in the houses. You don't know d*ck about who fired what, where or when the morning of this attack.
What we do KNOW is a girl that lives in this house openly admits on camera that she KNOWS about the IED. Knows where it was placed and exactly when it was going to go off. That is what we do KNOW. And again you know d*ck about what small arms fire took place that morning...So stop running your silly little mouth at every turn and trying to spin everything in a negative light against this Marines.
If any of them point blank executed defenseless and nonthreatening individuals they will be punished. What more do you want?
Why not give them the benefit of the doubt until such?
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