President's Immigration speech - Live thread

me | 05/15/2006 | me

[devane617]

I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.

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Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim

[Jorge]

Yes, I am amazed at the posters I have never heard of suddenly telling me what a liberal I am!! It is rassuring to see the familiar freepers much more reasonable and supportive of Bush on the thread!!

And of course there are some who automatically accuse you of being a troll from DU the minute you disagree with them.
It's absolutely infantile.

By the way, polls show we are among the majority supporting Bush on his speech.
Seems the majority in Congress on both sides of the aisle also liked Bush's speech.

Unfortunately these threads seem to attract some of the most rabid fanatics around on this issue.

[Vicomte13]

Which state?

[Vicomte13]

Which state?

[Hodar]

I'm all for employer sanctions if they're intentionally hiring illegals. The penalty should be less than the death sentence from a business standpoint.

If I'm running a landscaping business, and I hire illegals to push lawnmowers, chances are the $10K/offense will bankrupt me. And for good reason.

Companies like Tyson Foods, or most factory workers require proof of citizenship. This protects them. If they are hiring illegals, well; things are going to look plenty bleak when the time comes to pay the fiddler. Crime shouldn't pay.

[Vicomte13]

So, I live in Connecticut.

Christopher Shays is my Congressman.
Pro-abortion liberal Republican, what folks here call an uber-RINO.
The Democrat's the same.

And then there's Lieberman versus...who knows? Likely a pro-abortion liberal Republican.

Do I vote for the Republicans as a caucus vote?
Do I write in somebody?
Do I go for a long lunch and ignore the polls?
What do I do?

[Deo et Patria]

Wrong again, which is not surprising. Go back and check my messages on the Miers nomination. I disagreed with the President on the Miers nomination and called and emailed my representatives to fight against it. I'm fine with people who want to take a harder line on immigration doing the same. What I am NOT fine with are people threatening to stay home from the polls and allow liberals to be elected because they did not get everything that they wanted. Such an approach is foolish, shortsighted, and ultimately bound to lead to even greater catastrophe. I remember the 1992 election, when many Republicans wanted to send a message to Bush 41 for his (admittedly wrong) stance on taxes. How'd that Perot vote work out for us? Eight years of Bill Clinton, that's how.

Perhaps you'd rather watch this country suffer under liberal leadership so that you can crow about how you "taught the GOP a lesson". I love my country too much to subject her to that.

But if you want to claim that "our guys" and "their guys" are about the same (with the libs being just a little bit worse) on amnesty for illegals, federal justices, huge tax increases, defense cuts, abortion on demand, gay marriage and the War on Terror, then you've lost your mind, with all due respect.

[RegulatorCountry]

"He who can destroy a thing, also controls a thing."

Too bad the "thing" in question doesn't appear to recognize this. Some good people have been completely trashed for trying to avert a disaster, including more than just a few formerly well-loved conservative pundits, as well as long term FReepers.

[mthom]

"Of course I think the concept of the nation?State we have today is a tad different."

Well the good news for you is that with a little help from this amnesty the idea of the nation state is on its way out of existence! What Economic Region are you from? sarc

[R.W.Ratikal]

The president's immigration plan is too little and way too late.

The only program that will save the nation from being overwhelmed by the Third World is to:

1. Secure the border with troops, walls, fences, patrols and modern technology
2. Deport. Of course no one expect that we can deport 12 million illegal aliens (A more accurate estimate of the number of illegal aliens in the U. S. is around 34 million), all at once. But we can begin to r round them up in bunches and dozens. It might take ten years but it must be done.
3. Declare a 50-75 year moratorium on immigration except for those seeking political asylum.
4. Withhold all welfare-state goodies from illegal aliens including schooling, health care, food stamps and anything that must be paid for by tax money except to for 1 2 3 & 5.
5. Impose heavy fines on employers who use illegal aliens. It's not true that illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't take. If there were no illegal aliens around to take the low wages offered by some employers, the employers would be forced to raise wages to whatever level it takes to attract workers, like every other business much do.

[Vicomte13]

"Whatever you can live with afterward, I'm afraid."

I am most inclined to wash my hands of the matter and retire from involvement in politics.

I can probably most easily live with that.

[Vicomte13]

"Some good people have been completely trashed for trying to avert a disaster"

Yes, but now our doom is upon us.

[Deo et Patria]

If you think we're suffering under "liberal leadership" now, I wonder what you thought of this country in 1992, with Clinton in power with Democrats in control of Congress, in large part because of Republicans who voted for Perot. Is there room for improvement in our Republican leadership? Absolutely. Is the solution to allow Democrats to get elected? Absolutely not.

When the President campaigns for a Kennedy bill, you should oppose him. But this is the SAME President who brought us lower taxes, great federal judges, a strong defense, and the eradication of terrorist-states abroad--all of which Kennedy vehemently opposed. It is precisely this rationale of many FReepers that I don't understand: "I don't like the President's support of a Ted Kennedy bill, so I'm going to do EXACTLY what Ted Kennedy wants me to do--allow more Democrats to be elected, to teach the President a lesson."

The only conclusion that I can reach is that FR has become infested with devious trolls posing as disenchanted Republicans.

[Vicomte13]

"What I am NOT fine with are people threatening to stay home from the polls and allow liberals to be elected because they did not get everything that they wanted."

But what about people who didn't get ANYTHING they wanted?
What about people who got the OPPOSITE of everything they wanted?

What if the Republicans installed a militantly pro-choice Supreme Court justice?

Isn't that really what just happened to the Border Conservatives?

They said: Build a wall, enforce the law on employers, no amnesty.
They got: no wall, no mention of enforcement on employers, and guest-worker-cum-amnesty.

That's like handing me Christopher Shays, a pro-abortion Republican.
What do you do, faced with that?

[mthom]

If the conservatives who may "stay home" number enough to sway an election then why isnt Bush reacting?

[RegulatorCountry]

"Yes, but now our doom is upon us."

I'm clinging to a tattered optimism, for now. I just hope the phrase "there's nowhere else to go" isn't ever applied to our country, instead of just a political party.