When all is said and done, I judge this President by deeds and not words. Let's see how implementation goes. I'll can be a little more patient.
Then we'll see.
Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
ABB McPain
But it will be eclipsed, easily:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
Well, the southern border is covered for one year. But what about the northern??
We've been at war for nearly five years!! I'm wondering if a lot of this isn't hooey. So much for security! If we were so vunerable to attack, why has the welcome wagon been open for all this time??
Who gets "everything" they want.
You obviously think the Senate bill simply contains the Bush sales pitch in legal form. You know nothing that is in the bill or in the 400 amendments that have already been put in. Yet, based on no more than a speech, and nothing of any substance that's in the proposed law, you're so, naively confident.
You shouldn't be.
go here, then talk to me:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
bttt
It will be a lot easier than it would be to find them now and deport them.
You won't catch the mouse if he stays in your walls, and you won't get rid of the illegal immigrants if you can't find them.
And while it sounds great to say we'll just fine the employers, you have to find them as well. You can probably get the people employing thousands of workers. You're never going to find the millions of people who have illegals as gardeners, baby-sitters, and maids. Nor will i be easy to crack down on illegals doing day-labor without hurting legal immigrants doing the same jobs.
The guest worker program gives us workers we need, at least in the short run, while giving illegal workers an incentive to come out of the closet. We can't replace 12 million workers overnight, so let's use that fact to help us find these 12 million people.
Good intentions coupled with unreasonable refusal to weigh actual consequences of proposed actions does not a compassionate or secure result make.
No nation's first order of immigration business is how to make it easier to thwart the law, existing law.
Every signal that the existing law will be forgiven, overlooked, dismissed, bypassed will be confirmation that there will be no intention of actually enforcing "enforcement" measures in the "reforms".
If you will not enforce the current law, now, first, then every potential immigrant will understand they can start coming illegally and then, in time, just present what the current mobs have - we're here, try to remove us. Your "reforms" will in the end stand for nothing, just as have the "reforms" of the 1980s.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
There comes a time when every good movement needs a crisis, and sometimes even a great loss, to recover the spirit to work for the principles from which it began. This may be such a time. What we should not do is shrink from what is right, regardless of what is popular.
We are right, and if we fail now our concerns will be vindicated in the predictable national innundation of unassimilated, and unassimilatable immigration. It does not matter in the long run if we prevent it, or work to come back from the pending crisis.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
A fifth grade student in Korea knows that if you are not going to enforce the existing laws, there will be no intent in enforcing the enforcement measurses in the so-called "reforms".
Either you want to enforce your laws or you don't; and most of the reforms are seeking some out to not enforce the current law.
No potential legal immigrant will wait, and why should they. They've been told, by you, that all they need to do is come, form a mob in the street and dare the country to remove them; no matter how much "better" the legal procedures are; they're a needless waste of time.
Figure 20 million more in ten years and 50 million more in 20.
No, you control who gets in, where every "guest" and "visitor" is and if they have left or overstaid their visa, and then you go get them, period. "Control" takes place in the procedures required in the country of origin, by our own consulates in that country and no one else gets in; no one across an unguarded section of the border because you do not allow unguarded sections of the border.
SDI is a virtual wall.
This stubborness is infuriating, but you must know that.
"SDI is a virtual wall."
That's a bit different, wouldn't you say? Can it be used on the border to keep illegals out? Let's tear down the physical fence around the White House. We'll put a virtual wall up to protect the President. Same with his bodyguards. We'll use virtual wall technology to protect him with. Why use real people? Israel should tear down its physical fence/wall and use a virtual one instead. The Chinese should never have built the Great Wall. The Romans, Hadrian's Wall. Why a virtual one would have done the same thing, don't you now? Real fences don't work, no really, they don't. That's just a figment of your virtual imagination.
I do not consider 400,000/year unaccounted for illegal immigrants across our southern border (20 - 25% non-Mexican) to be a domestic security "accomplishment", post 9/11.
The troops needed to be on the border on 9/12 and still there now. The rest is pretense.
As far as who wins in November or 2008, I do not consider either possibility as having any great importance if the current immigration "reform" proposals go through.
Again, you need to weigh the actual proposed bill and its amendments against the rhetoric that is selling it. They are as dis-similar as any two objects can be.
Lastly, you cannot tell potential immigrants that you are willing to distort your laws in any manner necessary, to accomodate an existing, massive illegal situation without all potential immigrants concluding that you will never have the will to enforce the enforcement measures in the "reforms" either. You're failure to enforce the existing law first, now and your fight to find ways to excuse that lack of enforcement will lead them to conclude they have no reason or need to wait for any legal process.
They will form a new mob in 5, and 10 and 15 and 20 years and again - with 20, 30, 40, 50 million dare you to enforce your new laws.
You have established we are cowards to enforce our own laws.
They will quit waiting.
Who can't read or write? And who needs to read or write for what particular task? Many a worker on a construction project has no need to read anything, other than a ruler, occasionally, which is the same in Spanish, Chinese or English and many do not need to read anything at all. Semi-skilled means sometimes just knowing how to use tools, period, and often is irrelevant to education level; when time spent in that work begins early. The project manager is often the only one who is bi-lingual or multi-lingual, because he is the one reads the plans, deals with everyone not on the job-team and as long as he can bark orders in their language it matters not that no one else understands them.
The president's speech was farce, if you think your textg proofing proves anything.
With regard to "Ex 23:9 - "Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt", there is little that is "oppressive" about asking people to obey the law, asking Mexican nationals not to jump the line in front of millions of legal immigrants who are not braking the law, nor in the general and generous treatment that even illegals receive here in spite of their illegality.
With regard to "Le 19:10 - Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the Lord your God", it is not oppressive to want to leave our grapes for the poor and alien who comes cleanly and openly, with our acceptance, into our "vineyard", as opposed to the thief who enters in stealth and demands to be served.
With regard to "Le 19:33 - "'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him", and we do not mistreat the legal alien who lives in our land, we even embrace him and ask him to become one of us, while we ask he who enters in the dead of nite, stealthly to return home with our campassionate refusal to punish him for his transgression.
With regard to "Le 19:34 - The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the Lord your God", which is how we treat all our legal immigrants who embrace us openly and come to us openly in the spirit of friendship and honor; while we compassionately send the thief home, after fixing his wounds and feeding him without expecting payment.
With regard to "De 24:19 - When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands", which we do for all our aliens, even the illegal aliens.
With regard to "De 24:20 - When you beat the olives from your trees, do not go over the branches a second time. Leave what remains for the alien, the fatherless and the widow", again which we do, graciously, as our safety-net and health care programs attest to.
With regard to "Mt 25:35 - For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in", which we do with every stranger that comes openly to us and seeks with honor to be received by us; while we feed the theif, school his children, tend to his wounds, in spite of his stealth and transgressions.
With regard to "Heb 11:13 - All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth", and those living by faith were not stealthily sneeking into your home in the dead of nite, hidding their presence, taking your fruit from your poorest and then demanding to be adopted.
With regard to "Heb 13:2 - Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it", and there is nothing in our treatment of aliens, legal or illegal that stands below any nation on God's earth.
Your text proofing is morally and religiously insulting.
*****6,000 is a joke.*****
I'm sure our men and women in service would like to hear the kind of confidence you have in them.
I know you were referring to the number and not our people themselves, but our military is the best of the best.
When all is said and done, I judge this President by deeds and not words. Let's see how implementation goes. I'll can be a little more patient.
Then we'll see.
Words to the effect that border security reaquires a guest worker program are prima facie evidence of an intent to deceive. I see no reason to wait for implementation to draw a conclusion, and act accordingly.
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