President's Immigration speech - Live thread

me | 05/15/2006 | me

[devane617]

I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.

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Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim

[GunnyB]

For those of you who wish to gauge the President's commitment on immigration reform, I'll direct you to this page on the Whitehouse website -

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/index.es.html

Of course, it will help if you are an illegal and can READ SPANISH...

Want to promote English, get rid of all the "crutches" we have all over the government and MAKE these people learn OUR language...

[RegulatorCountry]

"Projectile vomiting will now commence."

An all-out campaign to prevent McCain from getting the nomination would be a very, very good idea, because you are far from alone in that reaction.

[TigersEye]

I think that it is because business interests do not want that border closed.

But why would they care if the border is closed if there's going to be a "guest worker program?" /rhetorical question

Because when these illegals become citizens, and even in the case of legal temporary workers, the law will require that businesses pay their FICA, minimum wage, vacation bennies, health bennies, family leave, retirement packages and so on and so forth. Those businesses will cut them loose and look for new illegals and new ways to scam the system.

Must be why he didn't say word one about enforcing the law on employers who hire illegals.

[TexasPatriot8]

Israel is also barely larger than Vermont. And don't get me wrong, if I was "the man" the first thing I'd do would be to demand immediate funding to build a ten foot brick wall with barbed wire and armed guards every 500 feet.

Don't get me started on Israel, I have friends there and friends int he IDF and their wall is a 100% effective deterrant. But building walls to keep out homocide islamo-fascist bombers from the Gaza Strip and West Back to Israel is not anywhere near comperable to building a wall like that from San Diego to Brownsville. It's a drop in a bucket compared to the water in a water tower. Massive undertaking. I'd do it, but it's no easy task.

I've suggested the Minutemen taking it on running a nationwide fundraiser taking donations over the phone with CC's, in the mail with MO's and cashiers checks, on the net with Pay Pal and other net payment vehicles, and all that money being kept in a single account and used to pay for materials and labor to build an honest to God wall on the border. It's doable, and the American people would fork over tens of millions easy to people like the Minutemen who put their money where their mouth is and have proven where they stand. I haven't gotten any response to that yet but it's doable, and would work even though it would take years. That's just what I'd do. AS for border conservatives walking after this speach, then they're not really conservatives. Not voting because you don't get what you want letter for letter is childish and selfish and stupid. And it guarantees the democrats win if all the single issue border conservatives do that, and then they'll REALLY see the border not get fixed. I've never understood the whole "if it's not done how I want I just won't vote" thing. That's like a kid holding their breath till their parent gives in. I say, "let em' pass out". It's stupid and serves no purpose other than defeating what someone purports to support, the conservative ideal and agenda. I don't like all things Bush and the Republican party really angers me with their lack of agressiveness and inability to have a spine. But I'm sure not going to stop voting because of it. I'd rather stay engaged and try my best to fix them over time. Not hold my breath and thing "Boy, when they lose because I didn't vote, THEN they'll be sorry". Then I'D be sorry because then I'd have to look at a democray majority making policy. That's beyond stupid and childish. That's destructive and putting ones personal interests above the wellfare of the country, and no matter what Bush or any Republican does to piss me off, I'm not going to let my irritation at some pubs come before what I know is best for America; a Republican majority rather than a democrat majority. It's just that simple.

[rolling_stone]

http://thetarpit.blogspot.com/2005/11/bush-amnesty-smoking-gun-found-again_03.html

The President is misrepresenting Amnesty as having to do with an "automatic path to citizenship." That's a false definition. The Reagan Amnesty didn't provide automatic paths to citizenship. Under that amnesty, illegals had to first apply for Lawful Temporary Resident (LTR) status, then wait eighteen months before applying for Lawful Permanent Resident status. Then, after five years, the amnestied illegals could apply for citizenship. Read:

Section 201 -- Legalization Of Status

a. Provides for the adjustment of status of illegal aliens to LTR if they:

Have entered the U.S. before January 1, 1982;

Have continuously resided in the U.S. unlawfully since that date;

Applied for adjustment of status during the 12-month period beginning on May 5, 1987; and

Meet admissibility criteria.

b. Provides for the subsequent adjustment of an alien in LTR status to that of an alien LAPR if they:

Apply for adjustment of status during the 1-year period beginning on the nineteenth month after LTR status was granted;

Have continuously resided in the U.S. since LTR status was granted;

Are admissible as an immigrant; and

Demonstrate basic citizenship skills.

c. Provides for applications to be filed with:

The Attorney General (local INS offices); or

Designated organizations (volunteer organizations).

d. Provides that during the 5-year period beginning on the date LTR status is granted, LTR's are ineligible for any Federal program of financial assistance.

e. Provides that the definition of Federal financial assistance does not include SSI. (LTR's are not precluded from filing for SSI.)

There was a path to citizenship, but it wasn't automatic. Also, as the above shows, the Reagan Amnesty clearly wasn't a blanket amnesty. Hairsplitting on the Bush Amnesty by the President, his aides, and his amnesty apologists has a strong tendency to fail when the dynamics of the Reagan Amnesty are properly understood.

Besides himself, who does the President think he's kidding?
............


I guess I need to spell out what the other article said, Reagan compromised on what is now being called amnesty in exchange for employer sanctions which would take away the largest magnet for illegal aliens EMPLOYMENT. Now Bush is rewarding those who are EMPLOYED which is what Reagan fought so hard to end....

[Wuli]

You say those not satisfied with Bush on immigration are expressing "Ingratitude"?

Ungrateful for McPain's unconstitutional "Campaign Finance Reform" that Bush swore he would veto, then didn't? You bet.

Ungrateful for never vetoing a single bill, in spite of the constant spending binge? You bet.

Ungrateful for the largest federal entitlement program increase in over forty years? You bet.

Ungrateful for the doubling of the federal expenditures and federal buraaucrats allocated for "education"? You bet.

Ungrateful for backtracking on the 2000 campaign pledge to reign in the bloated farm subsidies? You bet.

Ungrateful for a spiraling decline in every measure of enforcement actions against employers violating the immigration laws - massively lower than even the Clinton years? You bet.

Ungrateful for trying to foist an unknown into the judicial nominations with no more than a "trust me" to go on (Meiers)? You bet.

Ungrateful for a GOP majority U.S. Senate that is run on the agenda of the Democrats? You bet ten times over.

Ungrateful for refusing to end the fillibuster of judicial nominations? You bet.

Ungrateful for Bush sliming his own grass roots with the charge that "some" (he meant us) want a massive one-time deportation of the current 12 million illegally here now?
Definately we are ungrateful for that!

You're damn tootin we are ungrateful, because Bush and the GOP leadership have zero gratitude for the MAJORITY of people who put them in office.

[Wuli]

What is it you liked?

[processing please hold]

:-) He makes my skin crawl.

[Earthdweller]

"Then they them must not be Christians."

They are..they are just illegal right now which makes them part of the Dems dark-side...bring them out into the open and see what happens.

[Texasforever]

You need to be vaccinated.

[ncountylee]

Both India and Morocco have long barriers.

[voteconstitutionparty]

It's just cover for trying to push through the old "guest worker", now called "temporary worker" program.

[Vicomte13]

"LOL..they are the fringe..believe me if you can."

Depends on how many of them there are.

When the pro-lifers were in a fury over Miers, we were called the fringe too. But the Republican party would be destroyed if the pro-life base stayed home.

In that case, the leadership new it and threw Miers under the train, not because they WANTED to, but because they had to.

Apparently they've calculated that the BorderBots are not as numerous, or as likely to be adamant, as the Pro-Lifers.

If I were a BorderBot, I'd feel utterly betrayed.
But I'm not, so my concern is tactical.
Will they really stay home?
Do they think the way I did about Miers and Schiavo?

When I said "This is IT" in each of those cases, I meant it. Jeb Bush will never get my vote after pulling Pontius Pilate. Had Miers been the nominee, I would have stayed home or voted third party. I resolved then to absolutely refuse to vote for ANY pro-abortion candidate. Only once Miers was withdrawn and Alito put up instead did I allow that I would consider, again, casting a caucus vote for Shays up here in Connecticut.

Now, these BorderBots seem as sincere as I was.
If they ARE, and if there are as many of them as there are pro-lifers (I think there are, and the President's 29% approval ratings tell me this is so), then I think the President inflicted a fatal wound on the party tonight.

But if I misread the BorderBots, then the GOP may eke it out.

[Beagle8U]

"I'm thinking that Bill Richardson is going to be the Democratic nominee.

That'd be an interesting race: Richardson vs. McCain."

Partly correct. It will be Richardson and Allen, as I said 6 months ago.

[Wuli]

"I don't consider myself a bushbot, but why all the throwing the baby out with the bath water."

If you actually read the "comprehensive" bill proposed (with 400 amendments) in the Senate, you'd know there is no baby in the bathwater.

Try this, for starters:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

[Texasforever]

Uh I don't know about Morocco but India does have a running artillery battle going on with their neighbor. But then I guess that makes no difference if it advances the agenda.

[TigersEye]

LOL

[FredZarguna]

Actually, I think he was just having some fun.

But I don't trust him because his sign-up date is after mine...