Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
Labor wise, I think we need them. It's not the rhetorical low paying "jobs American's won't do", it's the higher paying semiskilled and skilled labor where we cannot hire people. As long as you can support yourself NOT having to do anything, why work? Unemployment compensation and welfare need to be reformed before we will ever get qualified help once the level goes under 7%.
There are millions standing in line waiting to come into the US legally. There is a tremendous backlog, plus various categories have yearly caps. It takes a long time for the line to move up.
then certainly we can do the job of policing a guest worker program.
It's got to be easier than capturing and deporting 12 million, or 20 million,people.
Yeah really. The level of disrespect and the total lack of any kind of cordiality here is really pathetic. I guess the trolls are out enmasse tonight.
What!!!!!!!!!
You win the prize for this statement.
This is a conservative site. You don't belong here if all you believe is what you see in the MSM. Go to a [d]emoRAT site where you negativism will be part of the BS. I don't want to hear it!
Remove the lure, the problem goes away. Do you know what the fine is for an employer who accepts false identification for employment? It's already on the books, it's simply not enforced. If the jobs go away, the entire reason we have illegal aliens goes away.
I'd say we enforce the current laws, and the current fines are already in place; they are simply not invoked. So, if we didn't enforce speeding ticket fines, do you suppose anyone would bother to drive the speed limit? If we didn't enforce car insurance laws, how many drivers would drop their insurance? If we made it known that we would ignore enforcing 'insert law of choice here'; why would anyone bother to follow that law?
Meanwhile, if we make it known that if you violate the law; you are going to jail, and the fines will likely bankrupt your company; even a very stupid man would figure it out.
Did you bother to read any of the sources I posted to you? Have you any concept how much damage is being done to this country, while you defend doing nothing?
Personally I'd rather see him ENFORCE the laws of the United Stated. George wasn't elected "Minister of the USA". He's was elected to govern and to uphold the laws of this United States. Let him keep his religion in his heart, not our pocketbooks.
Not just to you, but to all who say "an illegal is an illegal".
On an academic level, I agree 100%. In fact, I go further -- a person who is illegally here 1 day is LESS of a criminal than a person who has been here illegally for years. It's like rewarding people for breaking the law more, and punishing those who weren't smart enough to start breaking the law 5 years ago.
But those who have been here continuously for 5 more more years ARE different than those who come and go. For the most part, those who are just doing this for a job to send money to their families back home aren't here for 5 years away from home.
These instead are the people who, other than the important fact that they didn't go through the proper procedures, really want to be a part of america. These are the people who bought the house down the block from you. Their children are playing with your children. They are at the PTA meetings, on the HOA boards.
OK, not all of them are like that, even at 5 years. I don't particularly like arbitrary things like using years as a proxy for integration.
But there ARE illegal immigrants who HAVE integrated into our society as much as they can being illegal. They aren't the ones who want to return california to mexico. (not that I see the down-side in that :->). And short of interviewing and investigating every one of the 12 million illegals to determine which are "integrating" and which aren't, setting a 'years' requirement is a good first step. (Anybody have the number that have been here more than 5 years?)
And while it sounds great to say "send them back to Mexico to wait in line", what Bush said is true: "We must always remember that real lives will be affected by our debates and decisions, and that every human being has dignity and value no matter what their citizenship papers say".
We want the MS-13 gang members gone. Heck, we really want all of them gone. But if we AREN'T going to make every one leave, if we are going to provide a path to citizenship for some, it is just "mean" (even if it is just) to uproot them and send them back to their home country unemployed, with no roots (because their family and friends are all in america), just to satisfy the logical complaint that people shouldn't get to stay here while waiting in the back of the line.
It could be worse, the Senate wants to put them in the front of the line. With the President's proposal, the only benefit they get is that they continue to live here while working for their citizenship. That's a real benefit, but in return when they do become citizens they are already productive members of our communities, like the man Bush mentioned who served in our armed forces defending our country before he was a citizen.
And what did all those Biblical exhortations get the Jews?
Thousands of years of invasions and oppression; the Holocaust; a homeland the size of a postage stamp surrounded by hostile nations.
Ethical, logical, and a failure.
It was Esai Morales, an actor. I wasn't sure I heard it correctly?
The House has it right and will get my vote
Did you see post 227?
Thank you for your post, although you might have pointed out something many don't wish to see.
People in this thread are making that argument "Deport them all now" has been expressed by more than one person, and it's what some of the politicians say as well, although when you sit down with them they to acknowledge that's not what they really mean.
Really, were they taking to our streets in the 80's demanding their rights and threatening to shut down cities? Were they shutting down hospitals and emergency rooms in the 80's? Was their language being forced upon you in the 80's? The comparison is not apt.
You're getting sucked into the hijacking. Let it go.
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