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Europe’s Two Culture Wars
Commentary Magazine ^ | May 14, 2006 | George Weigel

Posted on 05/14/2006 4:03:29 AM PDT by RWR8189

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To: kinoxi

Good read! Long, but America needs to take a sharp look at this too, as we are not far behind!


21 posted on 05/14/2006 6:35:51 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: alarm rider

The very real and very grave problem we have here in the U.S. is that the Billory crowd is absolutely certain that our problems can be cured by becoming more like old EU, in every way (their foreign policy think tanks are priming the media pump for "wealth transfers" to Mexico to cure our illegal immigration problem).

What is amazing in that certainty of the left is it continues to hold in the face of obvious, factual ecnomic and social decline across old EU.

If Europe fails itself again (which it is on a trajectory to do), its only "saviors" will be in places like Poland and possibly a few of the small nordic countries - not anywhere in GB, France, Germany, Belgium, Spain or Italy.


22 posted on 05/14/2006 6:42:16 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: RWR8189

Sheesh. The endless European accomodations described in this article reminds me of a jailhouse b!+ch trying to keep his "husband" happy.

Please excuse my bluntness, but they are really bending over to take it again and again.


23 posted on 05/14/2006 6:45:19 AM PDT by rusty millet
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To: Tax-chick

bump for later.


24 posted on 05/14/2006 8:19:09 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Dump the 1967 Outer Space Treaty! I'll weigh 50% less on Mars!)
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To: RWR8189

Thank you for posting this article. One of the most insightful ones ever on FR.


25 posted on 05/14/2006 8:45:04 AM PDT by Draco
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To: RWR8189; rmlew
The alternative approach to Europe’s future was graphically on display last August upon the death of Robin Cook, the former British foreign secretary (and critic of the Iraq war). The funeral service was held in the historic “High Kirk” of Edinburgh, St. Giles, and led by Bishop Richard Holloway, the erstwhile Anglican primate of Scotland, who some years ago wrote a book attempting to reconcile his readers to what he termed the “massive indifference of the universe.” Holloway later described the funeral in these words: “Here was I, an agnostic Anglican, taking the service in a Presbyterian church, for a dead atheist politician. And I thought that was just marvelous.

That just about sums up the whole problem.

26 posted on 05/14/2006 8:50:34 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: RWR8189
Well, it's just as we have been saying: If it were not for Enemy A, Enemy B would have been dispatched forthwith and would be no problem.

I.e., dump the Left into the oubliette of history, and our foreign enemies will just wither on the vine.

The more Americans see of Europe and of the American Left, and its Propaganda Machine (the "Mainstream Newsmedia"), its Political Machine (the Democrat Party), and its leaders (Pelosi, Dean, Reid, Kennedy, Boxer, Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, Carter, Kerry, Gore, etc., et al.), the more they resolve to Vote Republican.

Europe is suicidal.

America is not.

Middle America is the last, great bastion of ascendancy, health, vision, optimism, sound judgment, truth, enlightenment, liberalism, clarity, and strength in the world today. It is the custodian of Western Civilization. It is the great hope of a dangerous and frightened world.

We must prevail, and we will prevail.

Do not let anger, frustration, or anything else cloud your judgment!

The leadership of Middle America is needed now as never before!

Remain steadfast.

And note tagline. Our threat is the Left. We must defeat them; that done, the others will be of little consequence. Keep your mind clear and your judgment sound.

27 posted on 05/14/2006 9:12:22 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: RWR8189

"As the Italian philosopher and government minister Rocco Buttiglione has put it, "Once, we used to quote Karl Marx when protesting against the 'alienation' 'objectification' and 'commercialization' of human life. Can it be possible that, today, the Left is inscribing on its banners precisely the right to commercialize human beings" - and all in the name of tolerance and equality?"

You mean there is a difference between the Left and Marxism??


28 posted on 05/14/2006 9:32:42 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: plenipotentiary

"Who says that the exising European population level is desirable?"

See social systems, see tax structure, see economic viability.


29 posted on 05/14/2006 9:43:19 AM PDT by CheyennePress
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To: RWR8189
Oh all right, I'll do it:
Happy Progenitor B Day!

30 posted on 05/14/2006 11:03:54 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: Sabatier

In their self-laudatory jubilation, I suppose the breathtakingly tolerant Protestants of Bochum failed to notice that they did not received a reciprocal invitation to celebrate Palm Sunday and Easter at the local mosque.


31 posted on 05/14/2006 11:14:02 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: RWR8189
So lost are the Europeans that, even as they celebrate adultery and homosexuality, they cannot perceive any cultural superiority over a religion that demands that such practices--and even the cherished secularism to which they are devoted--be capital crimes.

The hubris and denial by which Europeans are completely blinded was eerily predicted at the dawn of European Civilization in Greek tragedy.

Europe is suffused with decadence as devastating as the black plague, but which, whereas the plague failed to destroy Europe, threatens to succeed, and the American Left--with its Political Machine (the Democrat Party) and its Propaganda Machine (the "Mainstream Newsmedia")--are committed to destroying America through the same decadence that promises to destroy Europe.

Middle America is the best hope of the world. We must not fail.

32 posted on 05/14/2006 11:23:52 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Spirit of Flight 93 is the Spirit of America!)
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To: RWR8189

I'm generally in agreement with his thesis. However, there is a point where I think his analysis is incomplete, or doesn't get to the essence, and thus misses both the real problem and possible solutions.

It is the mantra that we keep hearing about the declining population in most european countries and how bad a problem that is.

The point I want to make is that population decline is not a bad thing PER SE. In fact it has many positive aspects (more space and resources for everyone). What makes it a problem is the underlying legal/social framework that forces a huge wealth redistribution from young (working) people to old people (taxing the working young people to give comfy pensions to the retirees). This is an unsustainable system even if the population were to remain static, since retirement years are constantly expanding. So to fix this problem, you have to MAKE EACH PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR RETIREMENT BENEFITS (and their own support in general).

The other problem with declining population that was mentioned in the article revolves around whose population is declining, i.e. the "western population". The concern here is that the immigrant (non-western) population is increasing and they threathen the local culture. Again, the problem is not the decline of the western population, nor the increase in the migrant population. Rather the problem is the attitudes (e.g. multiculturalism) of the local population that's codefied into law which welcomes people to their country that hate them and want nothing to do with assimilation. The solution to this is rather simple - DON'T WELCOME OR LET IN PEOPLE INTO YOUR HOUSE THAT DESPISE YOU AND YOUR CUSTOMS.


33 posted on 05/14/2006 12:38:40 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: RWR8189

Europe is in decay for more reasons than stated in this article, and I see no seeds of reform that might turn things around. It is said that you can boil a frog if you turn the heat up slowly enough, the frog will take no action to jump out of the pot. That seems to be the situation in Europe, things get steadily worse but they get worse so slowly that the Europeans take to actions to reverse things.


34 posted on 05/14/2006 4:58:30 PM PDT by Eagle74 (From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots)
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To: CheyennePress

Are you saying the population level now is perfect for social and economic development, or that increasing population is essential to economic prosperity and social advance?


35 posted on 05/14/2006 6:09:03 PM PDT by plenipotentiary
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To: RWR8189; Sabatier; Savage Beast

Happy Progenitor's Day! LOL!

This was a fantastic article. I read another article supporting this on the Touchstone site. It was by Allen Carson and entitled "Family Factors."

Go to www.touchstonemag.com/archives, and search on his name. I think it was published January 06. I may post it tomorrow if I can (I don't know Touchstone's policies).


36 posted on 05/14/2006 6:16:40 PM PDT by livius
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To: plenipotentiary

I'm saying that maintaining a relatively stable to growing population is vital for economic development. You cannot maintain economic viability with an aging population. It puts too much strain on the healthcare industry, on social services, etc...

Nevermind the fact that you have fewer people to fill the same number of jobs. There will be correction with time for the jobs issues (some businesses will bite the dust inevitably), but again, how do you maintain a country on a fixed income with an ever-growing need of healthcare and a dwindling number of healthy, young individuals to pay for it?


37 posted on 05/14/2006 6:25:41 PM PDT by CheyennePress
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To: CheyennePress

I do not agree with what they say, but people in these countries will try to use point like "rising productivity more than compensates population declines as we can run the country with fewer people" and "we have more spare resources for people, hence a higher quality of life" in attempts to retort you. Be prepared with these arguments.


38 posted on 05/14/2006 6:28:15 PM PDT by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: CheyennePress

There are problems associated with stable or falling populations, but they are not as great as the problems associated with perpetually rising populations in areas that are already essentially full.


39 posted on 05/14/2006 9:14:27 PM PDT by plenipotentiary
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To: NZerFromHK

"rising productivity more than compensates population declines as we can run the country with fewer people" and "we have more spare resources for people, hence a higher quality of life"

Agreed.

For people who advocate perpetually increased population, I would ask what will they say when the whole planet has standing room only only, and the next child has to stand on someones shoulders?


40 posted on 05/14/2006 9:17:24 PM PDT by plenipotentiary
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