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Cheney: US backs Croatia for joining NATO, EU
Reuters ^
| May 6, 2006
| Matt Spetalnick
Posted on 05/07/2006 10:38:23 AM PDT by Lukasz
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1
posted on
05/07/2006 10:38:30 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: redgirlinabluestate; Rushmore Rocks; Jack Black; peter the great; opocno; gadrael; hummingbird; ...
Eastern European ping list
FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list ping list.
2
posted on
05/07/2006 10:39:04 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
Let me take this opportunity to say that Cheney rocks!
3
posted on
05/07/2006 10:42:04 AM PDT
by
advance_copy
(Stand for life, or nothing at all)
To: advance_copy
His Excellency the Vice President makes a lot of sense.
4
posted on
05/07/2006 10:48:22 AM PDT
by
GSlob
To: lizol; Grzegorz 246; twinself; REactor; vox_PL; MarcinPL; macel; kaiser80
How do you think, what should be OUR policy towards Balkan states, what long time strategy our goverment should imply?
5
posted on
05/07/2006 11:00:31 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
why would anyone want to join a thorougly and utterly undemocratic/post-democratic 'super state wannabe' entity such as the EU?
6
posted on
05/07/2006 11:58:02 AM PDT
by
Palpatine
(The lesson of modern politics is that no class is less fit to govern than that which governs us now)
To: Lukasz
How do you think, what should be OUR policy towards Balkan states, what long time strategy our goverment should imply?For starters, we shouldn't be encouraging them to sell out their sovereignty to NWO-type organizations.
7
posted on
05/07/2006 12:00:58 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: Palpatine
Moola. That's the only reason. Bunch of cowards selling their birthright for a bowl of porridge.
8
posted on
05/07/2006 12:03:10 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: inquest
The EU is a myth, it is hard to fight with a myths. It is easy to sell something like this to inexpedient, often idealist people from the former communist countries. There is no reason for us to fight with the wind, they will join anyway. So plan B is necessary, more countries in, better. It will be not the same EU, simply too many groups of interests and the current agenda will be unable to control all these activities.
9
posted on
05/07/2006 12:20:22 PM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
The EU's going to admit whomever they're going to admit, regardless of what we say. All Cheney's accomplishing with this statement is giving prestige and respectability to the EU. Not surprising at all, coming from an administration that supports a similar arrangement (the FTAA) here in our own hemisphere.
10
posted on
05/07/2006 12:37:17 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: inquest
You are right but from the American perspective it is simply not profitable to oppose the EU. Perhaps Cheney doesnt want to antagonize anybody. In the eyes of the Balkaners you will earn the same amount of the prestige like the EU. Now they don't need to chose between US and the EU. As you are aware not all countries in the EU are against US every move.
11
posted on
05/07/2006 12:48:25 PM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
Even if he doesn't want to antagonize the EU, he doesn't have to support it either.
12
posted on
05/07/2006 12:50:37 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: inquest
I dont think that he stood up for the EU in any special way. If he would say that US support Croatias bid to NATO, it would sound strange. Reading between the lines, all people would understand that he oppose their entry to the EU. WHILE Im almost sure that the Croatian president in his opening speech mentioned the EU.
13
posted on
05/07/2006 1:01:39 PM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
If he would say that US support Croatias bid to NATO, it would sound strange. Reading between the lines, all people would understand that he oppose their entry to the EU.No, it could easily be interpreted as meaning that he takes no position on it, because the U.S. is not a member of the EU and so therefore we're neutral on it. That's a perfectly respectable position for any country to take.
14
posted on
05/07/2006 1:08:20 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: inquest
It would be as you wrote if the US would usually be so neutral and you are not.
15
posted on
05/07/2006 1:29:56 PM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
The fact that the U.S. often comments on a lot of things doesn't mean we have to comment on everything. It's still possible not to take a position on something.
16
posted on
05/07/2006 1:41:22 PM PDT
by
inquest
(If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
To: Lukasz
So plan B is necessary, more countries in, better. Well many Europeans in the West already understood, that they are somehow just sucked out by some of their new "partners". Countries who apply for a EU-membership usually know, what it means in advance. If you join a club you have to accept usually the terms of membership in advance. To act destructive after joining in is simply betrayal. Sorry, but that's the plain truth.
Therefore it is quite likely that the Europeans in the East get what they want. A free trade zone and a quite exclusive club in western Europe, that will keep all those countries in "new" Europe out. Probably sooner than later. I.e. there is already a big countermovement in Germany, the UK and France to accept such "banana republics" like Bulgaria or Romania inside the EU (BTW - there is some reason for this stance). They are suitable for such millitary stuff like NATO, but they do not fit into a alliance like the EU. I doubt that the Bundestag (and some other parliaments in other countries) will wave aside their EU-application. There is already a hot discussion about this issue. You will find out that this is just the beginning. It is really quite naive to think that "old" Europe will accept every pool of BS.
Maybe the possibility of a alliance between those countries west of river Neisse and those east of it is also just a myth. Perhaps we should restrict ourselves simply to good neighbourhood without free trade zones, right of domicile or agro-subsidies. Not funny for Polish farmers and plumbers but good for us Germans. Besides - it works perfectly. Germany has a excellent relationsship with Russia without all this EU-crap. We even build pipelines together.
To: Atlantic Bridge
To act destructive after joining in is simply betrayal. Sorry, but that's the plain truth. So in your opinion if we would want the EU to become more rightist, decentralized it is destructive act and betrayal?
Beside even if some of our political forces which never supported joining, tried to act destructive then how could it be a betrayal? However it is very unlikely that Samoobrona or LPR will push for withdrawal.
We even build pipelines together.
Go for it, but later do not expect any help from us when they will stop pumping.
18
posted on
05/08/2006 3:28:05 AM PDT
by
Lukasz
To: Lukasz
So in your opinion if we would want the EU to become more rightist, decentralized it is destructive act and betrayal? To overburden the EU with problematic countries has nothing to do with changing it in a constructive way (which is nessecary). To paralyze the the EU with too many different voices has nothing to do with decentralizing it. The ambition of those people who represent this stance in your country is quite clear: They want to change the EU into a irrelevant cash-cow. Somehow a late reparation for the misfortune of 40 years of communist rule. You can be sure that we will not play this game.
Go for it, but later do not expect any help from us when they will stop pumping.
We do not expect any help since you will not be able to help us in this issue anyway. It is unrealistic to think that Poland will have the means to solve the energy problems of western Europe. I just wanted to be a littlebit cynical to express that I feel sad if our relationship is reduced to same level than the current German-Russian relation.
To: Atlantic Bridge
To act destructive after joining in is simply betrayal. Sorry, but that's the plain truth.
Can you give some examples of acting destrucively on Poland's part in EU? It is somehow strange that for all nations acting in their interest should be treated as betrayal of EU ideals. You must know well that for Poland betrayal is German government's idea of building a pipeline allowing Russians to terrorize the whole Eastern Europe in the middle of winter. But it is in your interest to have cheaper gas so you don't really care... That's double standards or am I wrong and this is this a manifestation of European ideals? So don't be surprised if Poland in reaction to that will push for alliance with the USA instead of EU. Also it's in our interest to build strong cooperation with smaller countries, similar to our - who know well what word independence means. Balts and Ukrainians finally see now that their friends are not in Berlin and Paris, but in Warsaw. United we stand... For the first time ever in our history it is finally possible. Yes, Polish-German alliance it is a myth - it always has been. Just like the whole EU thing. If people like you lose faith in it what can you expect of others? In other words good luck with the pipeline but farewell to EU-BS.
BTW
German market is not open to Polish workers and will not opened for years but at the same time I see tons of Germans coming to my region looking for cheaper services. Also German farmers would screech if not for Polish season workers during the harvest. Of course you could always import some first rate Turks instead if you want :) The difference between "Old" Europe and "New" Europe is that in 50 years time you will be Islamonazi provinces with burkas, muezzins and minaretes while "New" Europe will still be good, old Europe.
20
posted on
05/08/2006 4:35:13 AM PDT
by
twinself
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