Cheney: US backs Croatia for joining NATO, EU

To paralyze the the EU with too many different voices has nothing to do with decentralizing it.

So in fact you doesn’t want fully democratic EU… In other words the EU should be only democratic enough to allow Germany (or GER, FRA axis) control over everything what is going on inside, right? Some people in Europe are European some others not, interesting…

We do not expect any help since you will not be able to help us in this issue anyway. It is unrealistic to think that Poland will have the means to solve the energy problems of western Europe.

Don’t be so sure… and I’m talking about Germany not whole western Europe

Can you give some examples of acting destrucively on Poland's part in EU?

Yep! I can. Just read Lukasz's #9:

The EU is a myth, it is hard to fight with a myths. It is easy to sell something like this to inexpedient, often idealist people from the former communist countries. There is no reason for us to fight with the wind, they will join anyway. So plan “B” is necessary, “more countries in, better”. It will be not the same EU, simply too many groups of interests and the current agenda will be unable to control all these activities.

I wrote that to Lukaz in another thread but in the same coherence:" ...I understand your aim: It could be the same outcome as it already happened to NATO. The more members the less functional. Contemporary NATO is a harmless debating club in the meantime. Maybe its next members will be Albania, Serbia, Azerbaijan, Georiga or Kazakhstan - uuuh I forgot Turkmenistan (sarcasm). Does anybody really think that the old esprit of NATO can be maintained with nations that have absolutely no cultural and ethnical coherence? In Germany we call such a thing simply "Papiertiger" (Paper Tiger)..."

You must know well that for Poland betrayal is German government's idea of building a pipeline allowing Russians to terrorize the whole Eastern Europe in the middle of winter. But it is in your interest to have cheaper gas so you don't really care...

Personally I think that this overpriced (because of the extra cost of being offshore) pipeline was also a betrayal on German gas consumers, since they are those who have to pay the high price for it. Anyway - we do not find the Polish und Ukrainian stance to blackmail Russia to cheaper gas prices by using us Germans very funny. You guys should be mature enough to deal with Russia alone without misusing our relationship unquestioned. Schroeder was a nightmare for our relations - that is for sure, but I do not understand the recent aggressiveness in Poland concerning this issue. This treaty with the Russians was a big fault, but it already happened. Merkel can do nothing since we would break international law and would break treaties with our most reliable supplier for energy. Pacta sunt servanda. Period.

So don't be surprised if Poland in reaction to that will push for alliance with the USA instead of EU.

This is absolutely okay with me. Poland is of course a free nation to do whatever it wants. The relationship with the US is not a antagonism to the one with the EU. Therefore we find it quite strange if there is strong dislike of the EU in political Poland in the meantime although they already signed all treaties and knew exactly in advance what kind of alliance it is. Maybe you simply should leave the EU??! Do not wait and replace it with a closer relation to the US if you think that this is suitable to you.

The difference between "Old" Europe and "New" Europe is that in 50 years time you will be Islamonazi provinces with burkas, muezzins and minaretes while "New" Europe will still be good, old Europe.

If you think so.

>>why would anyone want to join a thorougly and utterly undemocratic/post-democratic 'super state wannabe' entity such as the EU?<

And why would our Vice President be taking a position on EU membership?

Nothing that they do matters. They will all be servants of Allah in due time.

It is true that the EU is a myth but if is possible to repair this organization, then it should be done and not simply destroy. Btw does Lukasz rule Poland?

So in fact you doesn’t want fully democratic EU… In other words the EU should be only democratic enough to allow Germany (or GER, FRA axis) control over everything what is going on inside, right? Some people in Europe are European some others not, interesting…

Hehe! No problem. Just give the members of the EU parliament the existing proportions of the population in the EU-states and let them vote. Forget about the European commission and all other undemocratic BS. Lukasz - that is democracy and freedom! Anyway I doubt that your gouvernment or your president would think that this is a good solution for them since Poland only has 38,000.000 inhabitants in difference to Germanys 80,000.000 or the 61,000.000 of France. Just to keep you Poles on our side Germany and France nodded the undemocratic Nizza-treaty through. Maybe that was a basic fault, but you should not tell me anything about "democracy".

Maybe you simply should leave the EU??! Do not wait and replace it with a closer relation to the US if you think that this is suitable to you.

You've been reading my thoughts from pre-EU era. But unfortunately leftie brainwash propaganda of "common Europe" won. Now we see this "common Europe" in pipeline project all too clear. Poland's people have been fooled into a project that was supposed to end old historical struggles and lead us to the common European bliss. Of course as you know real life is different and hence this 'agressivness' when it turned out that practically nothing changed in German geopolitics. Maybe for you it's exaggerated but please give Poland some credit because of our difficult history. Polish right thought that maybe Merkel was a ray of hope in Polish-German relations. But she changed her policy making it more and more Gerhard like. I really don't see an major differences between them in German foreign policy except for lip service in the direction of USA. Do you?

If you think so.

Yes, I think so. I think that sooner Western Europe will become islamized than islam will become a 'religion of peace' it pretends to be. In longer term if you take demographical trends Eurabia is not just a political fiction. It's how it will be.

I was always for Europe of strong nations so it is obvious that I don’t support such system. Nizza treaty was accepted by all current members so there is nothing to talk about. But no country accepted that the EU can interfere to their elections or chose which party should be a part of coalition.

But unfortunately leftie brainwash propaganda of "common Europe" won. Now we see this "common Europe" in pipeline project all too clear.

Common Europe has nothing to do with this pipeline. This was a dirty little business of the traitor (he betrayed not only the Poles but also his own German compatriots with this plot) Gerhard Schroeder to get a job at Gasprom after being not reelected as German chancellor. You make it yourself too easy if you say that nothing changed in German geopolitics. This pipeline with Russia is a factum that can not be changed anymore. Treaties have to be kept and Russia is not a hostile nation to Germany. As I already said: Pacta sunt servanda... Besides of that we did not made just some "lip-service" in direction of the USA. Why should we? Maybe you Poles do not like it, but it is the Russians who have the "easy" energy and nobody else. Poland and Germany are restricted on coal and maybe nuclear energy. Therefore it is nessecary to stay in contact with them and they have to know that we (and not only we Germans) are reliable partners. We all know, that there was good reason for them to shut down the pipeline to Ukraine. It has not only to do with the orange Revolution but also with a mountain of unpaid bills. There are quite a few different standpoints in this clash and all have their justification. The truth has many different colours.

Nizza treaty was accepted by all current members so there is nothing to talk about.

Yep! The same thing like with the pipeline. Pacta sunt servanda. We Germans simply do not whine that much about how Schroeder and Chirac sold our interests in Nizza. But it was you who started to talk about democracy.

But no country accepted that the EU can interfere to their elections or chose which party should be a part of coalition.

Imagine that there would be such nationalistic and populistic parties like in Poland in the current German coalition in Berlin (very funny). Imagine they would have the same attitudes to you like "your" coalition partners have to us. Be sure: You Poles would boil in patriotic anger and scream about weird nazism or something else...

Nizza [Nice] treaty was accepted by all current members

accepted by their politicians, not by the peoples.

Yep! The same thing like with the pipeline. Pacta sunt servanda. We Germans simply do not whine that much about how Schroeder and Chirac sold our interests in Nizza. But it was you who started to talk about democracy.

Sorry but in my opinion they worked in cooperation. Now we know that it is not just a pipeline but Gazprom is shareholder of German energy monopoles. With full awareness and blessing of the new German government.

Imagine that there would be such nationalistic and populistic parties like in Poland in the current German coalition in Berlin (very funny). Imagine they would have the same attitudes to you like "your" coalition partners have to us. Be sure: You Poles would boil in patriotic anger and scream about weird nazism or something else...

The are populist but anyway western press highly exaggerate and you, what you know about them? Not much I suppose. Beside I see that you changed the theme for German-Polish relations. Poland would not ask the EU to remove them but slam them bilaterally if it would be really necessary.

accepted by their politicians, not by the peoples.

The EU is an organization not a country. So, it would be enough if democratically elected politicians sign such treaty. With so called European Constitution, it is a different kind of matter, because it was de facto an attempt to create one big country. Such decision need to be accepted by all the societies in referendum.

We should support Croatia and in case of others we should like them If they like us.