Skip to comments.Another Reason to Kill Us?: Western Decadence and Jihad
Posted on 05/04/2006 3:10:08 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback
In a recent Washington Post story about Abdul Rahman, the Afghan whose Christian conversion almost earned him a death penalty, reporter Pamela Constable wrote that Afghans are grateful to the United States for its economic support. But, she added, many Afghans remain leery of Western values and associate Christianity with fornication and drunkenness.
Clearly, Afghans link Christianity with America, and link America with decadence. But why would they do that?
Well, lets see. In the news this week, we have stories of Duke University lacrosse players accused of getting drunk and raping an exotic dancer. Pictures of two unmarried and very pregnant American actresses, Angelina Jolie and Katie Holmes, have been splashed across the tabloids. A DVD about homosexual lovers, Brokeback Mountain, is selling briskly. Meanwhile, our lawmakers continue to discuss legalizing gay marriage and even polygamy. And gambling interests continue to buy political favors.
Decadent? Us? Now, why would Muslims think that?
The story about the Afghans is a sobering reminder that the Muslim world watches everything America doesand often resents our influence. Especially do they resent the pornography, lewd music, and trashy films that make their way into Muslim homes.
Well, I resent them too. We know what damage pornography does to those who consume it, and it leads to crimes against women and children. We know that kids are better off in married families, and we know, from the evidence coming out of Scandinavia, that same-sex marriage destroys traditional marriage.
This is why we ought to continue fighting the culture warrestricting pornography and protecting marriagebecause to do so is good for our society. But fighting these battles will help us in another way, as well.
As Charles Krauthammer noted in Townhall.com, one of the reasons Islam is fighting the great jihad against America has to do with sexual depravity. The jihadists claim that wherever freedom travelsespecially in America and Europeit brings sexual license and corruption, decadence and depravity.
This is what so affected Sayyid Qutb, whose radical writings Ive talked about earlier on this program and whose teachings influenced Osama bin Laden. Jihadists, like bin Laden, view themselves as holy warriors fighting a holy war against Western decadence.
Now, we have got to be careful not to blame innocent Americans for murderous attacks against them. At the same time, we need to understand how Americas increasing decadence is helping Islamic fanatics recruit more foot soldiers. No, of course Im not suggesting that we try to accommodate or adopt Islamic beliefs about sexuality and women. I am saying, however, that we ought to realize and help our neighbors realize that living up to the tenets of our own faith, and the tenets of Western civilization, will take away one of radical Islams best weapons.
And at the same time we would be helping Christian missionaries to win the hearts of Muslims around the world. Muslims, who, not surprisingly, associate the Christian West with drunkenness and fornication, want nothing to do with our Gospel, as weve discovered in our work in the prisons. So I say its time for us to get smart and to do good at the same time.
This is part three in a four-part series on Islam.
However, Colson is right that our immorality (and the perception we project overseas that the average American has Hollywood values) is hurting us. There are a lot of Muslims who are turned away from the Gospel by this crud, and there must be others who see our supposed lifestyle and are repelled when they should be attracted.
Of course, expecting help on this issue from the christophobes in Hollywood and the media is a pipe dream.
There are links to further information at the source document.
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>>At the same time, we need to understand how Americas increasing decadence is helping Islamic fanatics recruit more foot soldiers.<<
Chuck, your stretching too far here. We are not gonna make our decisions on sex in order to please Islamofacists. At least I hope we won't.
Especially do they resent the pornography, lewd music, and trashy films that make their way into Muslim homes.
Damned stuff just worms it's way right in there, maybe they'll invent a spray or something to stop it.
Ya know, it grows in that closet too, starts out as just one
copy of Burqua Booty Babes and the next thing you know there's stacks of filth and decadence. Mullah's gone Wild,
Lesbian sisters of the Suicide Martyrs Brigade, Amadi and his magic flute (gay), it just never stops.....
In part, it is. It is fuel for the jihad machine. People who otherwise wouldn't support them see them as a way to preserve (or regain) cultural morality. Remember, one of the reasons that Hitler rose to powers was that he was (in some ways) very active in promoting cultural morality at first.
At the same time, we need to understand how Americas increasing decadence is helping Islamic fanatics recruit more foot soldiers. No, of course Im not suggesting that we try to accommodate or adopt Islamic beliefs about sexuality and women. I am saying, however, that we ought to realize and help our neighbors realize that living up to the tenets of our own faith, and the tenets of Western civilization, will take away one of radical Islams best weapons.
I like Chuck Colson and look forward to each of his columns. But here he is just wrong.
The western world cannot ask non-believers to adhere to Christian principles to assuage the muslims...they would hate us anyway.
This is not a battle between tenets of faiths. This is a battle between God and the anti-God (islam).
Chuck Colson is a good and wise man. But this enemy is dark and ugly...it is no match for a nice churchman sort of fellow.
IMO, this war needs an exorcist!
The title says *another* reason to kill us, not the sole reason. I also don't believe the radicalism against 'infidels' line would be pushed so much if it wasn't for perceived decadence (coupled with perceived weakness). I think the main catalyst is America's cultural influence and the resentment and against it. This is another 'culture war', but on an international scale and with bombs instead of words.
One thing these Muslims fail to notice is that it is the same Hollywood that hates BushitlerTM most.
Interestingly, the decadance of average Europeans or indeed any non-American Westerners are probably just as worse or infinitely worse, and nary a peep is heard from the Muslims about the foreign films produced in Europe or British TV series like Footballers' Wives or Cold Feet. If you spend enough time reading the likes of UK Guardian or Le Monde in France, European intellectuals gleefully say that American decadance causes Muslims to hate them, while saying at the same time American religiousity and "repressive" morality and religiousity is barbaric to their own fellow Europeans.
As Mark Steyn pointed out previously, these Euro intellectuals can't have it both ways when it comes to America: do they want the Americans to be less moralistic to satisfy themselves, or moee moralistic like the Muslims demand.
The rest of the world hates us because they think we're all liberals (lazy, arrogant, selfish, and so on).
He's not saying it's a reason to kill us, he is just taking us into the Muslim mind.
And the whole thing is very ironic, being that those who tend to blame US foreign policy as a reason why Muslims hate us, are the ones promoting the abover reference behavior.
It wouldn't matter to folks like Osama bin Laden if America adopted the strictest Christian moral code, because in the end it would still be Christian, and therefore anathema to the radicals' belief in Islamic dominance. There may be parts of popular culture I don't particularly like, but let's not kid ourselves by believing that getting rid of raunchy entertainment will make al Qaeda suddenly think the USA isn't so bad after all.
The world hates us because they want our stuff. All of it.
I think one of the mistakes that Christians make is that they somehow assume that Muslims are living decent lives, in contrast to us. But is this the case? Islam permits polygamy, it permits the marriage (or enslavement) of girls who are still children, it tolerates the sexual use of young boys, often by their male relatives, it tolerates drug use and maintains a thriving heroin and hashish production industry, and its "legal system" is a bloody eye-for-an-eye type of licensed mayhem.
That hardly makes them sound like moral paragons to me. And they would not like us no matter what we did, for the simple reason that they are terrified of freedom and individuality. In their world, women are to be bagged up in cloth and used for labor and sex, with men having the right to throw one out and get a new one whenever they're tired of her; all decisions are to be made by crazed elderly men waving a copy of the Koran; and art and music and learning are to be suppressed because they might get in the way of memorizing the Koran.
We give them way too much credit. That doesn't mean that I don't think we could stand a bit of moral tightening up; but that's not why they hate us.
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I agree with you. If America could become a total Christian nation than the Muslims might view us differently. That, however, is a very big "might" and I for one do not believe it would make one bit of difference. Christians are considered infidels just like anyone else who isn't a Muslim. So to me, nothing would change. That does not mean that the Christians here should hide their light but they should bring it out into the open and profess their Christian belief and try to live according to it.
Alcohol is strictly forbidden in Saudi Arabia, but its there, there are Saudis who drink, as well as Saudis who break every other rule you can think of. It just takes more planning there, than elsewhere...
I was once invited over for drinks by a Saudi. Thanks, I don't drink, I said... but you're a Christian, he said, you're allowed to... I replied, yes, but its not obligatory...
I've been told by arab christians, and I've observed it myself (I think) that muslims view Christians as more-or-less exotic creatures who get to do all the things that are forbidden to them. And whats more, we do them with no apparent sense of guilt. When muslims convert, they are thought by other muslims to have done so not out of conviction but so they can drink and dance with women.
This has to do with the fact that, to them, the West is Christian, and therefor everything Westerners do is generically "christian". Thus they associate freedom in general, including freedom in moral issues, with Christianity.
This does extend to all the filth that comes out of Hollywood, which is eagerly consumed by these folks. They are drawn to it, and repulsed by it at the same time. Again, they associate all of that with Christianity.
It should be pointed out that moral depravity is certainly a part of muslim culture, it is obviously not a western invention. But most people consider their own depravity to be tolerable, and the other guy's depravity to be disgusting, and that is certainly the case with these folks. What is different in the West is the basic assumption that people have the right to make private judgments on matters of faith and morality, that people have the right to make mistakes, and a general reticence to pass judgment on others. In general terms this reduces the need for public hypocrisy.
In a place like Saudi Arabia, public hypocrisy is a survival skill.
To push this thought a little further, during my time in Saudi Arabia, once I had settled in, I found it rather peaceful and low stress. Saudi news is pretty limited, with most of the bad stuff left out. CNN would come on for an hour or so after I went to bed, so I seldom watched it.
But when I did, I found it hair-raising, extremely disturbing. It was wall to wall serial killings, child molestations, congressional scandals, awful stuff. When you watch that stuff in the US, it just rolls off, you see it in perspective, you are just seeing the man-bites-dog stories, you know the normal run of the country isn't like that. Your normal everyday life is not like that.
But seen from outside the US, with nothing to give balance, with nothing to place it in perspective, CNN news comes across like the ravings of a lunatic raving about a lunatic nation. You can't imagine how the US looks when seen through such a tiny lens as CNN, from a distance. And when the only other lens you have, for perspective, is Hollywood, you have to know that the US looks like a very scary place.
How many movies have they made over the years in which Vietnam Vets are psycho killers? Just for example. We know thats just Hollywood. Foreigners assume thats who we are.
"Is decadence another reason to kill us?"
With all due respect, I didn't get that from the article.
Colson is merely pointing out Islam's perception and their action, based on it.
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