Posted on 05/04/2006 10:20:30 AM PDT by churchillbuff
the idea of a sacred Judas always seemed rational to me, at least in Christian terms. The New Testament tells us firmly that Jesus went to Jerusalem at Passover to die and to fulfill certain ancient prophecies by doing so. How could any agent of this process, witting or unwitting, be acting other than according to the divine will? ...[snip]
Now we have, recovered from the desert of Egypt, a 26-page "Gospel of Judas," . ...[snip]
The Judas gospel puts legend's most notorious traitor in a new light—as the man who enjoyed his master's most intimate confidence, and who was given the crucial task of helping him shed his fleshly mortality. And you can see why the early Christian fathers were leery of such texts. This book has the same cast but a very arcane interpretation. Right before Passover, as the disciples are praying, Jesus sneers at their innocence. Only Judas has guessed the master aright—and has discerned that he comes from the heavenly realm of the god "Barbelo." In the realm of Barbelo, it seems, earthly pains are unknown and the fortunate inhabitants are free from the attentions of the God of the Old Testament. The Judas gospel would make one huge difference if it was accepted. It would dispel the centuries of anti-Semitic paranoia that were among the chief accompaniments of the Easter celebration until approximately 30 years after 1945, when the Vatican finally acquitted the Jews of the charge of Christ-killing. ...[snip]let us all therefore give thanks for our deliverance from religion, and raise high the wafer that summons us to the wonders and bliss of the faraway realm of Barbelo and brings us the joyous and long-awaited news that Judas saves.*
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
Evil? Misguided or hurtful perhaps, but evil would have been putting her in a death camp like Hitler or Stalin would have or chopping her head off like the Religion of Peace(C) would.
I think you trivialize the word evil. There is real evil in the world and it should not be trivialized.
a book in the torah
"The Books of Machabees" the first and second only are regarded by the Church as canonical; the third and fourth, as Protestants consider all four, are apocryphal.
He hasn't the power to do those things.
Do you think he would if he could?
As I recall, he's spent most of his life as a hardcore Stalinist. Based on that, I'd say yes.
Christopher Hitchens should keep his perverse thoughts to himself instead of displaying them for all to see what a moron he is. He does admit that his premise is that Judas was a hero. I would have liked to see an intellectual discussion of the history and merits of the gnostic gospels, with rationale to support his assertions. He writes off the concerns of the early church with unsupported assertions. Why should we believe his version when he is so cavalier? His thought process is so distorted that I am not sure what to think of believe anything he has to say. I'd rather read the comics.
The First Book of the Machabees is a history of the struggle of the Jewish people for religious and political liberty under the leadership of the Machabee family, with Judas Machabeus as the central figure. (175 and 135 B.C.)
Long before Christ and the Christian period I'm afraid.
It's a good benchmark of humanity though.
So Hammerhead .... what cult are you in, again?
Depends on which sense you're referring to. Did anybody force Him to lay down His life? No. Did somebody commit the physical act of killing Him? Yes.
Judas betrayed Him.
The Jewish leaders had Him arrested and put Him through six illegal trials.
Pontius Pilate, knowing that Jesus had done no wrong, acceded to mob rule, had Jesus scourged almost to the point of death, allowed Jesus to suffer His cruel fate and released a murderous insurrectionist instead.
The soldiers actually scourged Him (on Pilate's orders).
Other soldiers drove nails through His hands and feet and gambled for His clothing.
Yes, there were people who committed the physical acts.
Good point.
As Charles Wesley put it,
He left his father's throne above
(So free, so infinite his grace),
Emptied himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam's helpless race.
Depends on which sense you're referring to. Did anybody force Him to lay down His life? No. Did somebody commit the physical act of killing Him? Yes.
Judas betrayed Him.
The Jewish leaders had Him arrested and put Him through six illegal trials.
Pontius Pilate, knowing that Jesus had done no wrong, acceded to mob rule, had Jesus scourged almost to the point of death, allowed Jesus to suffer His cruel fate and released a murderous insurrectionist instead.
The soldiers actually scourged Him (on Pilate's orders).
Other soldiers drove nails through His hands and feet and gambled for His clothing.
Yes, there were people who committed the physical acts.
The more important issue is why He did this for us.
Wesley put it quite well.
Depends on which sense you're referring to. Did anybody force Him to lay down His life? No. Did somebody commit the physical act of killing Him? Yes.
Judas betrayed Him.
The Jewish leaders had Him arrested and put Him through six illegal trials.
Pontius Pilate, knowing that Jesus had done no wrong, acceded to mob rule, had Jesus scourged almost to the point of death, allowed Jesus to suffer His cruel fate and released a murderous insurrectionist instead.
The soldiers actually scourged Him (on Pilate's orders).
Other soldiers drove nails through His hands and feet and gambled for His clothing.
Yes, there were people who committed the physical acts.
The more important issue is why He did this for us.
Despite the title of this thread, Judas couldn't even save himself.
Thanks,
Chris
He may hate Christianity, but he does not like it when Christian minorities are persecuted. When he originally wrote about Mother Teresa, he said that he was prepared to give her her due in helping the poor until he met her and observed her operation in action. He was not impressed, and one of his main beefs with her was that it was quite obvious that she wasn't spending the millions being donated to her for care of the poor in India on the poor.
That's very interesting. Did he say where he thought the money was going?
Chris,
The Bible makes many references to those who will attempt to deceive people with false doctrine. That's exactly what the "Book of Judas" people are trying to do. They are trying to undermine the authority of God's word.
Judas is truly a tragic figure (see Mark 14:21). He let ambition and greed blind him to Jesus' divinity, in spite of three years sitting under His teaching. As for his relative culpability, I think of him as the instrument that Satan used to carry out his evil (and failed) plan. There was plenty of blame to go around.
As for unforgivable sin, the only one is blasphemy of the Spirit. See Matthew 12:31-32. Blasphemy of the Spirit is rejection of His testimony of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
You're asking some excellent questions!
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