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What REALLY is driving up oil prices.
4/26/06 | self

Posted on 04/26/2006 6:35:00 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants

Okay, I have seen a LOT of threads claiming that oil companies aren't really making that much on each gallon of gasoline.

Oh, really? (blink, blink) Then explain the record profits by the oil companies.

Why sure. First, US oil companies don't import all of their oil. In fact several companies actually import very little. Where do they get it? Why, from wells on private and federal land that they drilled on years and years ago. What is the extraction cost to get it out of these wells? You can be darned sure that it is nowhere near $75 a barrel. In fact, I read that it is somewhere around $7 to $15 a barrel. Add to this cost a small royalty that they pay the federal government or private land owner and refining and transportation cost and you come up with maybe $25 a barrel.

Now, mix in the oil they bought 3 or 4 months ago at $52 a barrel that is just now coming to the refinery and you have an average of between $25 and $40 a barrel.

So what we have is huge profits at the expense of the consumer. How long will it last? The prices will start to drop once they feel they are starting to harm the economy. Congress and the media and the consumers stop bothering them and they look for the next opportunity to do it all over again.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: collusion; energy; gaspost; gasprices; greed; monopolies; oil; petroleum; refinery
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To: Iscool

Are you willing to take a smaller salary or sell whatever you produce for less within America if you could get more internationally? There is a concept called opportunity cost in financial analysis which states that the true cost of using some resource is the higher of actual production costs OR the highest lost opportunity cost of using or selling that resource for some other purpose. If you could produce a barrel of oil for $7, but you could sell that barrel on the world market for $55, it is costing you $55 dollars to use that barrel of oil not $7, and this would be in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices.


101 posted on 04/26/2006 7:45:09 PM PDT by E=MC<sup>2</sup> (Are liberals born stupid, or do they have to work at it???)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Your chart is skewed. Refining costs are nowhere near 22% (comes out to roughly 53 cents a gallon). Refining costs are more or less constant. Remember a few years ago when gas was selling for 80 cents/gal? The oil companies AND the retailers were making a profit while taxes were 40 cents on a gallon! That means that total production and distribution costs were about 25 cents a gallon.




HUH?????????????????????????????

GEEZZZZZZZZZZZ


102 posted on 04/26/2006 7:45:50 PM PDT by JohnD9207 (Lead...follow...or get the HELL out of the way!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
I did this awhile ago, but I guess I'll have to do it again. Here is how the petroleum industry works and is different then normal industries.
I build gas stations in New Jersey. The average rebuild with a canopy in 1990 was about $300K. It is now about $1.1M. The materials was about $100K then, I made about a 30% margin on the materials. Now the materials went up, I make the same margin of profit. That is the way most businesses work, the raw materials you used to create something was a percentage of the total bill.

Now lets go to the petroleum marketing system, they work on a per gallon markup. A profitable gas station works on an average of 10 cents a gallon. It starts at about 5 cents for regular to about 15 cents for premium.
Now the raw materials . aka fuel, is not a percentage of the product they sell. If they buy a tank car for $1.00 a gal.they sell it for $1.10 a gal. if they buy it for $2.00 a gal. they sell it for $2.10 a gal., get it. This works all the way thru the wholesale to the retail system. If you look at the profit margins for Exxon/Mobil it is about 10%.

Now if you buy 10,000 gallons of gas for $1.00 gal. and you sell 5,000 for $5,500 and you get a notice that the next tank load will cost you $1.25 a gal. or $12,500. Now you only have $5,500 dollars of fuel in the ground so you have to raise the Price to $1.35 gal.;you will only collect $6750 plus the $5500, you already collected, for a total of $12,250 - the $1000 you needed to pay your overhead. So now you have $11,250 in the bank to buy you next tank. Now you have to take $1,250 out of your pocket to buy your new fuel that the customers think you are ripping them off. This process goes on until the fuel price starts to go down and the dealer starts to sell his inventory fuel for the old high price and replaces it with the new lower price and he recoups the money he took out of his pocket to stay in business when the price was going up.
Now any other industry would have added interest to the borrowing cost to the products, only the petroleum industry cannot do it.
The gas station owners really run their station out of a labor of love.The real money is in the C-Stores, I built many but I am under contract and I cannot expose the financials. All I can say, the gas is almost sold as a loss leader to get people into the C-Stores, thats where the big money is made.

I hope this info will help my fellow Freepers understand this market. If anyone can explain this easier, I welcome your input.

103 posted on 04/26/2006 7:46:15 PM PDT by fedupjohn (If we try to fight the war on terror with eyes shut + ears packed with wax, innocent people will die)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Gasoline could go to $10.00 per gallon and people will buy it. Probably $20.00 as well.

Somewhere along the graph there will be an intersection....and then the sheite will hit the fan.

Meanwhile back at the rants, Iran is building nukes, a number of "allies" are sticking it to us (a bit more quietly these days compared to the 70s) while terrorists are planning our destruction, and the morally bankrupt media chorus sings and cheers of the demise of what is and has probably been the greatest achievement ever of humans.

Not Homer, Sophocles, or any other could have written a more poignant story as what is likely to occur in the near future concerning these United States if things do not change.
104 posted on 04/26/2006 7:47:34 PM PDT by Radix (Stop domestic violence. Beat abroad.)
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To: listenhillary

I was just reminiscing. Not making an argument against raising prices. More competition and small profit margins make everything different today.


105 posted on 04/26/2006 7:48:27 PM PDT by Between the Lines (Be careful how you live your life, it may be the only gospel anyone reads.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Because of supply and demand. People bid against each other for oil deliveries. The one with the oil is the one who paid what the other bidder was unwilling to pay. Oil is sold on the open market. I don't know what else to say other than it really is that simple.


106 posted on 04/26/2006 7:49:31 PM PDT by GW and Twins Pawpaw (Sheepdog for Five [My grandkids are way more important than any lefty's feelings!])
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To: Blood of Tyrants
So let me get this straight It's ok to charge $3.00/gal for gasoline from oil we buy from Saudi Arabia but not for oil that we pump from our soil? It probably costs less to pump a barrel of oil in Saudi than here. Do you have a concept what a commodity is?

Can I expect to obtain gold mined in South Dakota? For a lower price than Gold mined in Siberia?

If you want to federalize the US petroleum industry and put it on a cost plus basis go ahead, and soon we will be buying $100/bbl oil all from abroad as well as refined product.

107 posted on 04/26/2006 7:51:58 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Do you REALLY believe they are making only 10% profit when their total cost is probably only about a buck?

You further demonstrate that you know nothing about the industry and their costs. You are off the planet with your assumptions. They are dead wrong, and irrefutable proof that strong opinions can be based on total ignorance.

108 posted on 04/26/2006 7:53:10 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Young Scholar
So the oil companies own assets (oil and oil fields) that have increased considerably in value. Do you expect them to pretend that this hasn't happened, and, out of the goodness of their hearts, sell it to consumers at far below its market value?

I know my problem...I watched too many Westerns as a kid...

In the Westerns, they always had bad guys and good guys...Lots of times the bad guys didn't really ride horses and they never shot anyone...They had the money to pay others to do it...And quite often, they controlled the water sources and supplies...

And if you weren't willing to pay a high enough price, you didn't get any water...And of course, the bad guys always set the market value...

And then there was Ben Cartwright...Where are the Ben Cartwrights of the Country???

109 posted on 04/26/2006 7:54:46 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
It is greed pure and simple and the price we pay at the pump in no way reflect the oil companies costs on that tank of gas.

Right, Capitalism is greed. However, the other system is tyranny.

110 posted on 04/26/2006 7:55:03 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: Dog Gone

Well said.


111 posted on 04/26/2006 7:55:39 PM PDT by freakboy
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To: RightWhale
The oil companies get to keep maybe 40% of their profits.

And that is passed to the shareholders as dividends.

112 posted on 04/26/2006 7:56:40 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Remember a few years ago when gas was selling for 80 cents/gal? The oil companies AND the retailers were making a profit while taxes were 40 cents on a gallon!

I remember. That was when oil companies were going bankrupt or seeking mergers to survive.

That was when the companies in Alaska were producing oil at a net loss, but to shut the wells in would have killed them.

That was when there weren't any profits and only losses, but armchair economists like you never noticed.

You were still bitching that gasoline was 27 cents a gallon like it was when you were a kid.

113 posted on 04/26/2006 7:56:44 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Blood of Tyrants
It is greed pure and simple and the price we pay at the pump in no way reflect the oil companies costs on that tank of gas. If you aren't greedy, then why are you so worried about the price? As the previous poster said, greed is part of capitalism.
114 posted on 04/26/2006 7:57:43 PM PDT by freakboy
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To: irishjuggler
No one is being forced at gunpoint to pay $3.20 per gallon for gasoline

We're not talking about watermelons...Of course people have to buy the gas...Apparently you don't have to drive to work...You may not know it, but millions of Americans do...

115 posted on 04/26/2006 7:59:32 PM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the whole trailer park...)
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To: NittanyLion

well, here in Ca, last I checked anyhow, the state tax per gallon is .18, the fed tax per gallon is .18, and the sales tax per gallon is .0825 (in Los Angeles County), hmmmm,


.4425 cents per gallon is TAX...


116 posted on 04/26/2006 7:59:54 PM PDT by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens...)
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To: kellynla

But he is saying that the cost of American oil should be free.


117 posted on 04/26/2006 7:59:57 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Proud soldier in the American Army of Occupation..)
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To: Jolly Green
Less than 10% profit is "fair" in any industry. Those who can't figure that out are pretty lame.

Jolly Green you obviously know nothing about business. I must average 40% in my business just to stay afloat.

118 posted on 04/26/2006 8:01:27 PM PDT by phil1750 (Love like you've never been hurt;Dance like nobody's watching;PRAY like it's your last prayer)
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To: Mike Darancette
Amtrack is just doing SO well!

If you want to federalize the US petroleum industry and put it on a cost plus basis go ahead, and soon we will be buying $100/bbl oil all from abroad as well as refined product.

I'm sure all of the oil countries currently with American employees would be most pleased to find that the employees now get their paychecks from the Federal government. (CIA or NSA or?)

I just bet Chavez would give us special deals because we nationalized our oil industry.

NOT!

119 posted on 04/26/2006 8:02:38 PM PDT by listenhillary (The original Contract with America - The U.S. Constitution)
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To: HP8753
EXCELLENT POST
120 posted on 04/26/2006 8:03:23 PM PDT by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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