About being laid off and unwanted when you're 59

The Star (South Chicago) ^ | 4/23/6 | Michael Bowers

[SmithL]

One of my readers is an underemployed 59-year-old man from among us here in the South Suburbs. Call him Harry. He works in information technology. Slowly and wearily, he says: "Once you get past 50, I swear, it gets tough, it gets really tough."

For instance, Harry applied for a job with a city of Chicago department that operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week. He got an offer for some contract work. There were no benefits, but it was a paying job.

A woman from the city called him one Monday morning and wanted to know if he could start at midnight. Harry said he'd like to give his current employer a week's notice. That wasn't good enough. The job was gone. The caller told him: "This is a brave new world. Learn to live with it."

[CindyDawg]

500. wow. Is this going to be a long term retirement thread?

[CindyDawg]

True. I just don't want to start a rabbit trail on home schooling even though I may have 1st mentioned it (I can't check from here) Ping me, if you are on one though, if you want)

[Labyrinthos]

Sometimes things happen in life to deplete those savings, sometimes things happen that make savings impossible. An illness in the family that far exceeds insurance coverage, a family tragedy that sees you taking on the children of another family member. Not everyone can live well planned lives.

True, but highly overstated. In my experience, when you put the person's lifestyle under a microscope you will find that the "things that happen to deplete those savings" -- if they ever had savings in the first place -- is a big screen TV set, semi-annual trips to Las Vegas, full service cable/satellite TV with every conceivable premium station, cigarettes, excessive alcohol, fishing boat or other recreational vehicle, lottery tickets, new car every three years, etc.

[McGavin999]

Have you done much volunteer work at hospitals or hospices? All the examining in the world won't find much waste at all, but it will show much suffering and sacrifice.

Frankly, I'm tired of trying to explain things to people who refuse to believe there is something called Bad Luck, I'm glad their lives have been so charmed, I hope they continue to be because their lack of compassion will hit them in the face HARD should things turn for them.

[itsahoot]

I did my graduate work in organic chemistry. I made my fortune designing microcomputer software and hardware (100% self taught).

If one observes the world around themselves, they might notice that there are people in the world with varying degrees of intelligence.

For instance Steven Hawking. But then you need to look at the other end of the spectrum as well (Such as Downe's Syndrome children)because all levels exist, and they always will. There used to be a Bell Curve and it was used by educators as a useful tool until the PC crowd declared everyone has the same IQ. It is not a matter of our choosing where we will fall on that scale. I will concede that IQ level can increase, but only slightly with education.

The next obvious step imposed by Hitler. Eugenics, that way either you came up to his standard, or you were disposed of. Far better that we realize that not everyone has the same potential, and deal with that truth.

For those who think they qualify here is the standard....

Genius IQ is set at 175. So if you score 175 or higher on an official IQ test, congratulations you are a genius with a certified genius level IQ! You are one in a million! You join the ranks of such luminaries as Bobby Fischer, the chess champion (187). If you scored an IQ level of 195, then you'd be one in several billion, just like Long Island bouncer Chris Langan, who not only flexes a muscular 250lb physique but a muscular mind that notches up a certified genius level IQ of over 195!

[Myrddin]

The tone of your remarks seemed to be complaining that containers have enabled globalization. Globalization is the favorite whipping boy on jobs related threads. I apologize if I misread your intent.

Many of my projects deal with real time tracking and instrumentation. Tracking containers is a natural outgrowth. There are many challenges. Very low power embedded technology is necessary as containers aren't tethered to power. Network connectivity (satellite or terrestrial) to report location derived from GPS. Cryptographic protection to ensure the efforts aren't subverted. Interoperability of the RF linked management systems across trucks, trains, aircraft, ships and ports.

I have another project related to the nuclear waste train. It has similar requirements for instrumentation and tracking. That is going to be a longer execution time frame because of the requirement to run 100,000 miles around the test loop at Pueblo, CO.

[itsahoot]

Life is good, and our future is secure. It was a well-planned choice we made while in our 20's.

No more secure than the government we serve.

[itsahoot]

but with age should come the experience to pretty much define your position in the working force.

Truly said, by someone who hasn't reached that age yet.

[BillM]

There are people who are naturally smart or strong or fit. There are also people who work very hard with what they have. The latter wil almost always succeed. The former MAY succeed.

It is important to realise that effort and persistence are rare and most often rewarded.

[itsahoot]

Older workers should acquire new skills or start new business

Lady Bird Johnson commented on the high cost of beef, people should eat more cheese. Cheese was about three times the price of beef at that time.

Older people have a lot to deal with just getting old. Do you think you just keep getting better? Let me be the first to inform you that physical deterioration is, under current scientific knowledge, inevitable.

An let us not forget that famous "Let them eat Cake" thing, and where that lead.

[Labyrinthos]

I have deep and sincere compassion for those who have really suffered "bad luck," particulalry if the bad luck is the result of an unpreventable medical situation. But in my experience, "bad luck" is more often used as an excuse than an accurate assessment of reality.

For example, I recall counseling a person several years ago, who wanted to file for bankruptcy because he was $150,000 in debt due to medical bills. Apparently, he lost his medical insurance when he was laid off. When I asked him why he hadn't continued the insurance under COBRA or at least purchased a catostropic health insurance policy that would have covered almost all of the loss, he claimed that he had used his savings to pay living expenses when he was laid off and couldn't afford the insurance. "Bad luck?" Perhaps. But a close look at his lifestyle showed that he never really had any savings in the first place. What he did have, however, was a house twice as large as he really needed, $14,000 home theater system, a power boat that he docked at a marina, a built in swimming pool, and three motor vehicles for a household with only two drivers. "Bad luck" was not the problem, rather he and his wife made bad lifestyle choices, and unfortunately for them, health insurance didn't make the cut.

I know another guy who filed for bankruptcy last fall just before the change in the law. He was thousands of dollars in debt, mostly due to uninsured medical expenses attributable to his smoking, eating, drinking, and exercise habits. When I asked him why he didn't have medical insurance, he blamed his ex-wife for taking every penny he had during the divorce and as a result, he couldn't afford health insurance (he was self-employed). Bad luck? Not in my mind. His medical problems were the result of extremely unhealthy lifestyle choices, and his lack of money to buy health insurance was the result of his divorce, which was the result of his drinking habits and a severe case of "wandering penis disease."

[itsahoot]

First, any reputable employer falls all over themselves to hire veterans. Veterans are mature, show up for work on time, are motivated, adaptable and flexible.

Corrected version
First, any reputable employer falls all over themselves to hire Illegals. Illegals, show up for work on time, are motivated, adaptable and flexible.

[chimera]

True, but highly overstated. In my experience, when you put the person's lifestyle under a microscope you will find that the "things that happen to deplete those savings" -- if they ever had savings in the first place -- is a big screen TV set, semi-annual trips to Las Vegas, full service cable/satellite TV with every conceivable premium station, cigarettes, excessive alcohol, fishing boat or other recreational vehicle, lottery tickets, new car every three years, etc.

Neither I nor my parents did any of those things. We worked like dogs all of our lives and everything my parents attained, plus a good bit of what I made over the years, was wiped out by catastrophic illness, cancer for my Dad and Alzheimer's for my Mom. This "blaming the victim" crap on FR has got to go.

I suppose there are those, some probably right here on FR, who will blame me or my folks for the situation we found ourselves in, we "didn't save enough", or didn't have the foresight to purchase catastrophic illness insurance, or some such crap. There are some on FR who would probably say, well, tough, it's your choice to care for sick/elderly family, you didn't have to, you could have thrown them out in the cold, or some other social Darwinist claptrap. Well, all I can say is, your time is coming...

[Revolting cat!]

Repeat after the teacher children:

I should of
You should of
He, she, it should of

We should of
You should of
They should of

[NHFREE]

Your post 510 was the best one on the thread. 59 is not 29. That's just a fact. Age takes its toll. You are not guaranteed a job in this country, but a little more understanding of the plight of older workers would be helpful.

[Labyrinthos]

I'm sorry to here about your situation. I never said that a person couldn't have "bad luck," rather, I said that "bad luck" is overused. But I have to ask: Why didn't your parents have health insurance or long term care insurance?

[ImpBill]

Most excellent. It is amazing what not servicing much debt if any can do for one early in life. We didn't reach that conclusion and ability until we were in our mid 30's but gave us plenty of time, with effort, and accepting that it was our responsibility to do so, got to the point that retirement was possible prior to hitting 60. And as some on the thread haven't been able to accept, we had some tough bumps in the road along the way as well that were not expected, concerning health and working ability for one of us. But, the key was accepting responsibility and making a plan and then working it.

Again, congratulations and as I am sure you know for a working couple you are in the vast minority who has done so. So many hard working Americans are little more than 3 pay checks from the "poor house".

Are we lucky? Perhaps some luck involved but acceptance of personal responsibility and pluck, IMHO.

[chimera]

I think poster A. Pole, based on his many contributions to threads of this nature, was being sardonic. There are standard FReeper responses to stories on unemployment/underemployment that you can almost bet the mortgage will come out:

1. It's their fault.
2. They should "retrain."
3. They should start their own business.
4. They should have saved more (variant of #1 above).
5. Move to "where the jobs are".
6. Line up for "The Next Big Thing".
7. Those are just "buggywhip jobs" anyway so we don't need them.

[HamiltonJay]

Kinda hard to put away like your grandparents, when your paycheck is roughly 1/2 in real dollars what theirs was.... just something to think about.

[chimera]

They had insurance but that only goes so far. Insurance has limits, you know. When we were dealing with these problems insurance wouldn't cover the long-term costs associated with Alzheimer's care. That was all on the family to pay. Medicare paid some bills associated with short-term care like acute illnesses, but long-term care falls through the cracks. I cared for my mother at home and made the sacrifices necessary to keep her in a home environment as long as possible. That ain't cheap. When the time came we had to have her in skilled care. That was about $6K a month. Since Alzheimer's can go on for years you end up spending a lot. Long-term care insurance? Didn't work out on timing. Most financial planners recommend purchasing long-term insurance in your late fifties to early sixties, because the costs are affordable in that age range and most people's health is still pretty good. My father already had his illness when he was 59 and so was ineligible. My Mom couldn't afford the coverage because she was rated based on family medical history (both parents died of cancer). So she avoids cancer and ends up with Alzheimer's. Go figure.

All I'm saying is that there are many, many people here on FR who for some reason are quick to blame the victim. They shoot from the hip for some odd motivation which I suspect is a Rush-like wannbe for "tough love", or seemingly like a tough-minded, "rugged individualist", and not recognize that there are many, many people out there who through no fault of their own end up with a lot of bad breaks. To sweep them all away under the rug of "it's your own fault you're broke so quit whining" is neither compassionate nor accurate. Life sometimes just isn't as straightforward as all that.