Posted on 04/13/2006 12:18:35 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
When the famous skeleton of an early human ancestor known as Lucy was discovered in Africa in the 1970s, scientists asked: Where did she come from?
Now, fossils found in the same region are providing solid answers, researchers have announced.
Lucy is a 3.5-foot-tall (1.1-meter-tall) adult skeleton that belongs to an early human ancestor, or hominid, known as Australopithecus afarensis.
The species lived between 3 million and 3.6 million years ago and is widely considered an ancestor of modern humans.
The new fossils are from the most primitive species of Australopithecus, known as Australopithecus anamensis. The remains date to about 4.1 million years ago, according to Tim White, a biologist at the University of California, Berkeley.
White co-directed the team that discovered the new fossils in Ethiopia (map) in a region of the Afar desert known as the Middle Awash.
The team says the newly discovered fossils are a no-longer-missing link between early and later forms of Australopithecus and to a more primitive hominid known as Ardipithecus.
"What the new discovery does is very nicely fill this gap between the earliest of the Lucy species at 3.6 million years and the older [human ancestor] Ardipithecus ramidus, which is dated at 4.4 million years," White said.
The new fossil find consists mainly of jawbone fragments, upper and lower teeth, and a thigh bone.
The fossils are described in today's issue of the journal Nature.
Found Links
According to White, the discovery supports the hypothesis that Lucy was a direct descendent of Australopithecus anamensis.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.nationalgeographic.com ...
Legitimate questions here:
How heavily does evolutionary study rely on radioactive dating?
How reliable is radioactive dating? And, if you'll bear with one more...
Would it be likely that flooding, an ice age, a meteor strike...any type of catastrophic occurrences over a large or small area...affect the outcome of this type of dating?
Hmmm. Yeah! After all, "Out-of-Africa" can't be right if "Out-of-England" is right.
And there's an evil, dumb, world-wide, all-powerful, secret conspiracy out to keep the truth about Piltdown Man hidden. The Piltdown Papers must be destroyed.
You dont want to believe its a matter of interpretation, and for yourself, the answer you have provided yourself is what satisfies you....but Carolinaguitarman is right...just exactly what does being in Gods image mean?...it can and does mean different things to different folks...it is a phrase that is interpreted...you obviously do not accept that, for your own life, that is fine...
What your definition of being created in Gods image is, will vary from someone elses definition...
How does this connect to evolution?...do you actually find it too hard for God, to create the very beginnings of life, allow His creation of evolution to proceed, and to have man wind up in whatever one defines as 'in the image of God'? Is it really too hard to fathom that folks may believe, that within the creative force of evolution, that God provided for the creation of man?
You believe and interpet as you wish...and for you that is fine...others,such as myself, disagree, and we have no trouble supporting the great creative force of evolution and still maintain our belief in God and in the Bible...
I sometimes feel like I am in a time warp as well...it seems like yesterday, I was in my 20s and having babies and I could keep them close...and then they had the nerve to start growing up and aging, and pretty soon, they were independent, and did not need 'mommy' so much anymore...
When my younger boy graduated from college, I thought, oh no, hes a man, hes embarking on his way through life, without me...
Now I am 60yrs old...retired, and getting older...where did that time go?...I guess I was always so busy in life, time just whizzed by...the trick is to enjoy the time along the way...
Like a pygmy..
How reliable is radioactive dating? And, if you'll bear with one more...
Would it be likely that flooding, an ice age, a meteor strike...any type of catastrophic occurrences over a large or small area...affect the outcome of this type of dating?
Radiometric dating is an important tool for getting exact ages. The other forms of dating (stratigraphic, fauna and flora, etc.) can establish relationships: this layer is older than that layer. When you have a lot of layers, that is extremely useful information, as it allows a cross-check on other methods (see my previous post for examples, upthread).
There are several types of radiometric dating, from radiocarbon dating that is useful only back some 50,000 or so years to several types that can measure the age of the earth, and agree with each other, on about 4.5 billion years.
Try this link for additional information:
The American Scientific Affiliation: Science in Christian Perspective Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective by Dr. Roger C. Wiens.To affect the results of radiometric dating you would have to speed up or slow down atomic reactions (i.e., in radiocarbon dating which I know best, you would have to speed up or slow down beta decay. That is tough to do with a flood or any other natural disaster.)
So, the methods themselves are pretty accurate. Care needs to be taken with sample selection though, but that is early grad school stuff. For example, I was taught if you do only one date you know the exact age of your site. If you do ten dates you don't (but with good sample selection you should have a good idea of the range of your site, which is far better data).
60 isn't that "old" anymore.
Lots of time left to enjoy
I don't know what you mean by "evolutionary study," but even without any radiometric dating of any kind, the evidence for evolution (fossil, morphological and genetic) would still be overwhelming.
How reliable is radioactive dating?
That would depend on the age of the material being tested and the technique used. Generally, scientists will give a range of dates with a 98% confidence (i.e. they're 98% sure that a given object is between 50-60 thousand years old).
Would it be likely that flooding, an ice age, a meteor strike...any type of catastrophic occurrences over a large or small area...affect the outcome of this type of dating?
No, not really.
I am going to be amused at how you respond to this! I am curious as to who will be accepted as "the father of math." I mean, fingers up to 10, then nose and chin gave us the dozen; toes bring us up to 20.
Then some clever people in India gave us the zero. The Romans and Greeks were slow to understand it. Pythagoras had ID notions about irrational numbers. The zero as a place holder for a place-based system of writing numbers based on powers of ten took 1000 years to gain acceptance. Brought to the West via Arabic scholars.
On a crevo thread, it will be amusing to see creationists telling us that math was given to us {poof} by the "Designer" vs. how our human understanding of numbers and mathematics evolved over a period of time, leading to geometry, calculus, topology, and other branches.
I await ID, numerologist, psychic types coming forth with with "proof" that every number is part of "our destiny", particularly 666. It is obvious that 999 is equally valid--you just have to look. Of course, in Bible times, there were no good mirrors.
No I'm saying the so-called Lucy does(pygmy)...
Dyslexic?..;) Them pygmys been around for at least a coupla hundred years.. Get over twenty years and it all gets a bit spotty for me.. Prognosticating 200 years I'm at my far limits..
Thank you both. And thanks for the link coyoteman.
"I don't know what you mean by "DNA's missing link..."
The genetic code. How can something intelligent evolve from something inert?
Do you think Jesus evolved from apes?
No problem; archaeologists, paleontologists, and paleoanthropologists are used to working with large time depths. We'll check out the terrain and get back to you with the results.
That is GREAT Tagline material!!
I have lots of great ideas for novels. Just can't write fiction worth beans. About 10 years ago I was hot to write a novel about what google is attempting to do by putting all published text online and indexed. I thought it was a pretty good idea.
Descartes is most considered the father of modern mathematics by most. However the origin of mathematics is unknown. Some are older than Plato and his teacher. A unknown Hindu determined Zero. There is not room to post the contributions.
That doesn't make any sense and certainly is not reflective of TToE
Do you think Jesus evolved from apes?
Discussions about Jesus' ancestry are not part of discussions of TToE. Since Jesus purpotedly was the result of a miracle, then your question is best answered on a Religion thread.
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