U.S. Rep. John Murtha tells City Club the war is lost

Cleveland Plain Dealer ^ | 4/08/06 | Donna J. Miller

[Libloather]

Murtha tells City Club the war is lost
Pa. congressman outlines failures
Saturday, April 08, 2006
Donna J. Miller
Plain Dealer Reporter

U.S. Rep. John Murtha's booming Marine colonel's voice filled the tight spaces between Greater Clevelanders packed into the City Club Friday to hear him protest President Bush's war on Iraq.

He repeated the message he began trumpeting in November: that American military efforts in Iraq are failing and will continue to fail, while costing taxpayers $450 billion by the year's end.

The 37-year decorated Marine and 32-year congressman from Pennsylvania said:

Iraqis with 80 percent of them wanting the U.S. out need time to solve their own civil war. "It took 100 years to get stability in our country, with its own civil war."

"We needed to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people." Instead, more than 40 percent of them say it is all right to kill Americans.

"We needed to be able to pick up the trash, restore power and get the people working again." Instead, oil production remains below prewar levels; electricity is available for just 10 hours a day in the sweltering desert climate; 30 percent of the population is without drinkable water; 60 percent are unemployed.

Troops are undermanned, underequipped and dying at rates higher than during World War II and the Vietnam War. "I visit the [veterans hospitals] every week. The troops don't know what their mission is any more." And 8,500 of them have returned with shattered bod ies or brains and the permanent "shadow on your soul" that fighting a war creates.

Murtha took questions from several luncheon attendees who worried that Bush may be planning to invade Iran. The ranking and longtime member of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee nearly shouted, "we will not" be entering Iran.

He also said that the subcommittee would not approve funding the construction of permanent military bases in Iraq. The audience broke into applause.

Murtha criticized Bush for using fear of terrorism to maintain public support for the war, when real dangers exist here.

U.S. ports are not secure, but they could be in one month, if the money that has been spent on the civil war in Iraq was spent on ports, he said.

Asked to predict the next threat to America that might require military force, Murtha said he's concerned about China and its increasing need for oil.

"And if they think that we can't respond because we are overextended in Iraq. . ." He shook his head.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

djmiller@plaind.com, 216-999-4852

[jazusamo]

[May I get some feedback on Murtha's remarks?]

Freema, here's my 2 cents.

I'm no military planner but on reading his statement it is evident he is not qualified to lead a Squad, let alone a Division or an Army.

He would redeploy to surrounding countries of which the closest would be Kuwait and maintain a powerful quick-reaction force with one division. That's ridiculous, it's hard enough to have a quick-reaction force when in country let alone spread out around the ME. He doesn't mention the problems of maintaining combat forces in those various countries.

At one point he says our military is unsurpassed in terms of strength, training and technology. He then turns around and says by enacting his plan we can rebuild our military. You don't have to rebuild something that isn't broke. It's either broke or it's not, he can't have it both ways.

From there on it's all about dollars, a typical political approach. Pull out forces and cut military spending so we can spend it somewhere else.

I view his entire plan as coming from a politician who is pandering for votes. He should leave the planning and execution of the war up to the President, the Defense Dept and the General Officers that are trained and payed to carry out that job.

Murtha is an incompetent.

[Marine_Uncle]

"U.S. ports are not secure, but they could be in one month, if the money that has been spent on the civil war in Iraq was spent on ports, he said."
I don't agree. It is going to take a long time, to make our ports secure. And so many serious issues must be considered that are irrevalent of time/money spent on the issues(s).
Just one example. How does one stop a freighter which has just been temporarily mored at a specific area at a given port, which had a nuclear bomb smuggled on board, from exploding and destroying a large portion of the city in proximity to the port. One can could somehow given enough money and resources, have 100% inspection of containers at every one of our ports. But can we at the same time have every ship at every port, be totally inspected by the Coast Guard.
Second point. He went to Iraq for a short visit. He returned with a totally negative view. The question is for me. Does his views represent what he saw on the ground and what he discussed first hand with the ground commanders? Surely being a Marine Colonel would entitle him to meetings while in country, that would be of limits to most. Did all our ground commanders tell him the war is lost, our troops are under armored, they are losing more military personel then was experienced in WWII?
We know the answers to these questions. He is touting the party line, and has sold our military out. It cannot be viewed in any other light.
If you would. Equate him to Walter Cronkite back in the seventies. He uses the same verbage, then used by the L/MSM to say the war is lost, when in fact it was after a truce was signed and we pulled our troops out of NAM. Once we pulled out based on the truce, signed in good faith with the enemy that all hostilities would end, they turned around and overran SV.
So Murtha's opinions in reference to the Vietnam War are not accurate representations. He is being dis-honest at best.
Our military had brought the NV to their knees. They went to the Parris talks only becuase they knew they never could win the war. To many people have not read the histories of that war. And therefore do not understand our military decimated their forces to the point we would have eventually marched into Hanoi if we had stayed in the country. Our airforce so decimated their key military and supplies areas,our navy mined their harbor so nothing could be shipped in etc., they knew the game was up.
And Murtha knows all this. He entered democratic politics and has sold out. It is that simple.

[freema]

Yeah, baby, it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[freema]

"Murtha's plans are as well laid out as chewer spitting into a hurricane."

Humpty Dumpty didn't fall off the wall, he volunteers to go head first into a wood chipper.

Humpty appears in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking-Glass:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

[freema]

"Pull out forces and cut military spending so we can spend it somewhere else..."

and then he never gave a clue as to where it might be spent!

Thanks!

[freema]

In light of your recap of Cronkite and Vietnam, the fact that we were WINNING and the horrible aftermath...you will find a few entries on this page incredibly parallel:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=john+murtha

[Marine_Uncle]

Thanks. Yes I am aware of how so many manage through ignorance or by plan to author their views that do not represent realities. I tend not to even go to such sites because one cannot change their minds. Their agendas will not waver. I rather spend my time at sites that provide a view that can be shown to be verifiable by numbers of people who are in the theator and understand what is required.
The old adage, now thou enemy is fine. We know them well. Reading their goop, gets a bit boreing after a while.

[freema]

What gets me is the regurgitating of the same old game plan...

I guess it worked just fine for them back then, and they think it will work again today?

I wish I had a capsule of American politics/policy for the first 10 years following the crash and burn of Vietnam.

[freema]

By JOHN F. KERRY, New York Times: April 5, 2006
(I can't access the article is Two Deadlines and an Exit -found this on a blog)



"Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America's leaders knew our strategy would not work. It was immoral then and it would be immoral now to engage in the same delusion."

[Marine_Uncle]

"I wish I had a capsule of American politics/policy for the first 10 years following the crash and burn of Vietnam."
Somewhat depressing times in some ways. I for one was not actively involved in politcal things during most of them years. Was to busy carving out a career and supporting a family, and to young to bother to get into the details.

[Marine_Uncle]

"Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America's leaders knew our strategy would not work. It was immoral then and it would be immoral now to engage in the same delusion."
What this goon does not elucidate on. Is the half the perished happened during the Johnson abortion. When Nixon assume office, things changed dramatically. He sat down with the JCS, and asked what the hell do we have to do to win this war, they told him, and he said. Ok. You do what is required. I will back you up a hundred percent.
Kerry is so full of it. He must continue to spin yarns that somehow might relieve him from his guilt as being a bonified traitor in a time of war. Don't waste your time on what he says.

[chcknhawk]

"Troops are undermanned, underequipped and dying at rates higher than during World War II and the Vietnam War." This is just one of many flat-out incorrect statements in this article. I wish I had Murtha's direct phone number to call and give him a piece of my mind. The facts are this: In Vietnam, 47,369 soldiers died in a war that we were involved in for about 90 months. That averages to about 526 dead per month. In WWII, 292,131 soldiers were killed as a direct result of combat. In the 44 months that we were involved in fighting that war, 6,639 soldiers per month died. Now let’s look at Iraq and the 1971 soldiers killed in combat related actions. The war has now lasted 36 months. 55 soldiers per month have been killed in this operation. One soldier means all the world to that soldier’s family. One death is too many. But when someone has to pay that ultimate price, shouldn’t we be comforted that we’re dying a lot safer today than in any other conflict we’ve engaged in? Keep in mind that I only used the number of the soldiers who have been killed in each war by enemy contact. In all instances I did NOT include deaths from illness, accident, or disease. Additionally, this information is about 3 weeks old. That's when I did these statistics. However, I can guarantee you that the numbers wouldn't change dramatically enough to make a difference. Murtha doesn't know Iraq from the hole in his head his brains must be seeping from. Thanks for the article.

[smoothsailing]

That's an excellent post.I didn't know the exact numbers because I didn't take the time to find the facts and do the math.

I'm glad you did and I'd like to use your post as a reference if you don't mind.

SS

[Libloather]

May I get some feedback on Murtha's remarks?

I think Murtha is up to his eyeballs with ethics problems. He's using this platform to gain some notoriety, and leftist kook fans, so when the hammer comes down he'll have something to deflect the outcome.

The more he speaks, the less I like him...

[Calpernia]

He can play with the words all he wants. It still comes down to pulling our troops from Iraq.

[freema]

"One soldier means all the world to that soldier’s family. One death is too many. But when someone has to pay that ultimate price, shouldn’t we be comforted that we’re dying a lot safer today than in any other conflict we’ve engaged in?"

We're beating the odds (could someone do a ratio?) at a higher rate for survival and/or recovery with newly developed technology. The technology that has come down the pike and the speed with which it has cut thru the red tape to make it to the field is awesome. Heck, it's not even all been on the drawing table, the boys in the field have led the way with prototypes.

[freema]

Number of deaths for leading causes of death

Heart Disease: 696,947

Cancer: 557,271

Stroke: 162,672

Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,816

Accidents (unintentional injuries): 106,742

Diabetes: 73,249

Influenza/Pneumonia: 65,681

Alzheimer's disease: 58,866

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 40,974

Septicemia: 33,865

Source: Deaths: Leading Causes for 2002, table 1

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

[smoothsailing]

OOPS, HTML doesn't play nice in freepmail! :-)

Did you mean this?

"My opponent [Murtha] has become the national spokesperson for the anti-democracy movement in Iraq, a position and opinion that lies in sharp contrast to most of us in the district he was elected to represent."

"Withdrawal right now would be devastating to the United States of America. We have to stand for our beliefs, we have to be committed to win this war on terror. Anything short of that will cause America great harm."
Diana Irey--March 22,2006

[freema]

"He would redeploy to surrounding countries of which the closest would be Kuwait and maintain a powerful quick-reaction force with one division. That's ridiculous, it's hard enough to have a quick-reaction force when in country let alone spread out around the ME. He doesn't mention the problems of maintaining combat forces in those various countries."

He gives no specifics. Why? Because he has none to give. Which bases, which countries are lined up to set this up? None.

[ZULU]

Do they let this guy out at night too? I would think they would want to keep him in protective custody as much as possible.

If ever any congressman needed institutionalization, Murtha does.