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No SWAT
Slate ^ | April 6, 2006 | Radley Balko

Posted on 04/07/2006 12:28:35 PM PDT by JTN

Sometime this spring, the Supreme Court will hand down its decision in the case of Hudson v. Michigan. At issue is whether or not police who used an illegal "no-knock" raid to enter a defendant's home can use the drugs they seized inside against the defendant at trial. To understand the importance of this case, some background is in order.

As the name indicates, a "no-knock" raid occurs when police forcibly enter a private residence without first knocking and announcing that they're the police. The tactic is appropriate in a few limited situations, such as when hostages or fugitives are involved, or where the suspect poses an immediate threat to community safety. But increasingly, this highly confrontational tactic is being used in less volatile situations, most commonly to serve routine search warrants for illegal drugs.

These raids are often launched on tips from notoriously unreliable confidential informants. Rubber-stamp judges, dicey informants, and aggressive policing have thus given rise to the countless examples of "wrong door" raids we read about in the news. In fact, there's a disturbingly long list of completely innocent people who've been killed in "wrong door" raids, including New York City worker Alberta Spruill, Boston minister Accelyne Williams, and a Mexican immigrant in Denver named Ismael Mena.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: balko; donutwatch; hudsonvmichigan; poisonedfruit; scotus; scotuslist; wodlist
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To: lndrvr1972

Why is it necessary to use these violent tactics for suspects who have not been shown to be violent or for petty crimes. One example was a guy suspected of exceeding his daily limit of fish.


41 posted on 04/07/2006 3:28:47 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Petruchio
It all boils down to one simple question: Are they Peace Officers, or Law Enforcement Officers? The difference between the two is the Attitude . . .

Which one do you think this guy is?


42 posted on 04/07/2006 3:33:21 PM PDT by JTN ("I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum.")
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To: connectthedots
I musta missed something.... I thought this no knock raid case dealt with whether the drugs could be used against the defendant. I missed the part about this no knock raid resulted in cops being shot because they raided the wrong house...

Where is our confusion here?

43 posted on 04/07/2006 3:39:26 PM PDT by sit-rep (If you acquire, hit it again to verify...)
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To: JTN
I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of bubble gum

lol...

44 posted on 04/07/2006 3:41:30 PM PDT by sit-rep (If you acquire, hit it again to verify...)
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To: Horatio Gates
Then you sir, are one of the good LEO's I mentioned in my post #25.

I'm glad you are still on the force, we need good cops out there to reign in the bad.

People might have the impression that I'm a 'cop basher'. This is incorrect, I respect and admire good LEO's. But the gung-ho types really need to be controlled. I know if someone breaks into my house in the early morning hours, unannounced, I would treat that person or persons as hostile and take appropriate measures.

45 posted on 04/07/2006 3:45:30 PM PDT by CrawDaddyCA (I ain't learning no friggin' Spanish!! This is America, you learn English!!)
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To: Horatio Gates
As a current cop

Do you support LEAP?
.
46 posted on 04/07/2006 3:55:44 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: JTN

I was with Dallas PD for a while. Most street officers thought the "SWAT" (back then it was "Tactical") teams were, with a few exceptions, the biggest bunch of primadonnas around. I watched the show twice out of curiosity and had to turn it off. It was all, "Look at me, I can kick down a door, and my wife is ready to bitch me out when I get home because I forgot her birthday."


47 posted on 04/07/2006 4:22:23 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Horatio Gates
As a current cop, who was a SWAT cop for a while, and a veteran of the US Army who had no intention of making a career of it, may I be the first to say that you are full of shi*.

Don't care much for no-knocks either or abuse of any other police tactics either. IMHO, if someone ain't about to get killed, then there better be a darn good reason you didn't knock and announce

(from bio.)(snip)For the last 15 years I've been a police officer (it beats working for a living) for a municipality in Pierce County. The highlights of my police tour of duty have been serving on a Street Crimes/Narcotics Unit for five years and four years as a SWAT Team sniper. All in all, it's been a pretty humbling experience. I never thought I'd be a cop in my younger days, but what the heck...I'm pretty good at it. Some of the high points over the last year have been complaints from "concerned" citizens about me telling folks to arm themselves and listening to Rush Limbaugh on duty.

I have a few hobbies which include home-brewing beer, mostly wheat based ales.(snip)

I find the WOD part of a large hypocrisy. I mean, wth are the various government agencies spending billions of $$$ vilifying in various methods cigarettes (and other tobaccy products) and liquor products which are all perfectly legal. Yet the governments reap windfall tax revenue from smokes and booze. Yet the true illicit and dangerous narcotics remain untaxed, billions of dollars of our money is spent and civil forfeiture laws are abused and the focus seems to be on punishing honest subjects…I mean citizens, who get hosed every time they want a smoke or a beer. Smacks of hypocrisy in my book. The end of the WOD would mean the end of many a bureaucrat’s job I suppose, but it’s time to win it or tax it. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not for legalization of narcotics, but the time to crap or get of the pot is long past due(snip)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mention in your bio. that you brew beer and that you have some problems with the way the war against drugs is carried out. From what I can tell your problem with the WOD's is that the governments can't seem to derive enough revenue from citizens who participate in illicit substances.

What I'm curious about is if a citizen planted a few cannabis plants for personal use (like you do on brewing your beer) and smoked the cannabis on private property - do you think the governments should be trying to convict that citizen of a crime?

48 posted on 04/07/2006 4:29:47 PM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:)
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To: Horatio Gates; sit-rep

My comment is not needed here, these folks are kicking themselves in the teeth just fine HG !!.........LMAO !!


49 posted on 04/07/2006 4:40:11 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: winston2
From what I can tell your problem with the WOD's is that the governments can't seem to derive enough revenue from citizens who participate in illicit substances.

Not quite. But if the government doesn't seem fit to win the WOD, then I can live with certain gov't controls that would tax dope, not meth or MDMA, like legal products liquor and cigarettes. So it might as well tax dope but if in some weird fantasy we decide to shut it down, then good. But until that time, I'll do my job as always.

What I'm curious about is if a citizen planted a few cannabis plants for personal use (like you do on brewing your beer) and smoked the cannabis on private property - do you think the governments should be trying to convict that citizen of a crime?

No prob. Keeping in mind not all private property is closed to the general public, personally I'd say limit it to the home and don't let me know about it. Professionally, I've looked the other way in similar cases a few times to get bigger fish. My beer rocks btw...8>)

50 posted on 04/07/2006 5:11:18 PM PDT by Horatio Gates (Kickin' ass on the wild side)
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To: CrawDaddyCA
Alrighty then. I was pinged to your first post I must be in a bad mood or something today.

FReegards to you and your brother!

51 posted on 04/07/2006 5:19:52 PM PDT by Horatio Gates (Kickin' ass on the wild side)
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To: mugs99
Do you support LEAP?

Lets just say I'm not quite there but I'm familiar with LEAP. Some good arguments on that end.

52 posted on 04/07/2006 5:22:01 PM PDT by Horatio Gates (Kickin' ass on the wild side)
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To: Horatio Gates
No prob. Keeping in mind not all private property is closed to the general public, personally I'd say limit it to the home and don't let me know about it. Professionally, I've looked the other way in similar cases a few times to get bigger fish. My beer rocks btw...8>)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea - I agree with you on the meth and MDMA needing to be suppressed with stiff penalties.

Yea - I agree with you about the cannabis only being used on "home property".

Yea - I'll take your word for it that your brew rocks.

BTW - I've sampled some domestic produced and Canadian cannabis that rocks!

I hope you wouldn't mind being pinged into quality cannabis discussions. You seem to be in a position to add balance.

53 posted on 04/07/2006 6:58:21 PM PDT by winston2 (In matters of necessity let there be unity, in matters of doubt liberty, and in all things charity:)
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To: Petruchio
Are they Peace Officers, or Law Enforcement Officers?

There must be an echo in here.

Something I have said often.

Preach it, brother.

54 posted on 04/07/2006 7:24:37 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: 00spy
"Civilian Police" can see the difference between a kid who has made an error in judgement and a criminal that should be prosecuted to the limits of the law. "Military Police" do not have or practice that discretion because any violator is the enemy to be eliminated.

People who have not had a recent "encounter" don't understand this. It is a completely foreign notion to them---until they become "acquainted".

Great post.

55 posted on 04/07/2006 7:29:38 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: T-Bro
Idiots who bash all cops as trigger-happy, gung-ho, power-trippers obviously do not really know any cops.

You are correct about this generalization of cops. I know some cops, and I like them. They're good fellas, and a lot of them would give you the shirt off their backs, because they joined the force to help their fellow man. I genuinely believe that.

Having said that, there are a few that should never have been given a badge. Period. I've met them, too, and they do a disservice to the guys I know and like, unfortunately. The rogues, like bad doctors, need to be reigned in by their own, or by lawsuits, or whatever it takes, because they're a danger to all of us, including their compadres.

56 posted on 04/07/2006 7:30:33 PM PDT by Hardastarboard (HEY - Billy Joe! You ARE an American Idiot!)
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To: sit-rep
If they do side with the defendant, it would cause a Tsunami...

The sooner, the better.

57 posted on 04/07/2006 7:32:16 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: Larry Lucido
Gotta go pick up some brewskis.

Be careful out there.

You can still buy it. Consuming it or transporting it can lead to a world of trouble.

Remember the story I related about my co-worker who had a cooler full of picnic supplies that was cited for "open container" because he had 9 UNOPENED beers in a cooler in the bed of his pickup (not the passenger compartment), and that particular brand and container type is sold in increments of 6?

Convicted day before yesterday.

58 posted on 04/07/2006 7:40:26 PM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: T-Bro
"Idiots who bash all cops as trigger-happy, gung-ho, power-trippers obviously do not really know any cops."

I think most cops are useless. Most cops in my area just patrol streets writing tickets for the smallest infraction. My friends dad got a ticket for stopping too close to the intersection at a stop sign, and there wasn't anyone around. I'm sure there a lot of good cops, but a good fraction of cops are there to harass citizens minding their own business. You can't act like aholes and expect people to like you. The problem is most local governments hire way too many cops for the trouble they have and end up having to pay for them with tickets and having to find reasons to keep them busy.
59 posted on 04/07/2006 7:44:20 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: lndrvr1972

Busting down the door is the greatest danger of all. Especially if it is my home.


60 posted on 04/07/2006 7:46:01 PM PDT by takenoprisoner (Sorry Mr. Jefferson, we forfeited the God given rights you all put to pen. We have no excuse.)
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